there's a hinge in my tail

[TheTurtle]

Just now, cnoe said:

LOL! That's the first time I've ever heard a Mooney being compared to a Massey Ferguson. You've got to FIX that thing!


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hah!  To be fair my 1948 massey turns better than my mooney.  I hate to disrespect a good tractor.  Mooney feels like Im fighting the PC system even though the yoke button is removed.  Worse turning left than right.  Its next on my list after I sort out the trim and the backwards CDI deflection.

[carusoam]

You want to know what is wrong with it before flying it.  Not knowing implies it is somehow safe.   

Maybe it is.  But how will you know?  

Questions like.... is something broken?  Or is something stuck in there that doesn't belong?

this has gone on for days.  The thought of flying something in an unknown condition makes me want to type LOUDLY.

do not fly.  Get it fixed.  Live long...

If it's old grease, get it cleaned.

If the trim wheel doesn't go the whole distance, count the number of turns it goes...

It is better to pay a mechanic and run out of money doing it, than fly with something in a known unknown condition.

if the trim completely goes away and you have to hold the yoke back or forwards, expect to run out of strength.

Been there done that, wouldn't recommend it to others...

It is quite possible that I misunderstood something.  I'm willing to err on the safe side.

Best regards,

-a-

[cliffy]

You need to get your mechanic to look at the TCDS sheet (Type Certificate Data Sheet) for your model and check the elevator and stabilizer movements with a travel board to see if they match. 

Make sure you use the correct SERIAL NUMBER section. I guessed at that by your 1967 year. But the process is the same. 

I've clipped it out here but look it up here-

http://www.67m20e.com/Mooney TCDS 2A3 Rev 52 dtd 9DEC10.pdf

Track down to F models and you'll see this-

Control Surface Movements Wing Flaps ................................T.O. Position ......... Down ........15 1 ...................................................Landing ................. Down .........33 + 0/ -2 Aileron..............................Up .......12½ to 17 ....... Down ......... 8 ± 1 Aileron static position............................................... Down ......... 0 to 2 Elevator ...........................Up .......22° + 0°, 2°........ Down ........22° + 0°, -2° Rudder ............................ Left .......23 to 24 .......... Right .........23 to 24 Stabilizer (L.E.) ................Up .......½ to 1 ............. Down ........5¼ to 5 ¾

Elevator Trim Assist Unit (for Aircraft with Serial Nos. to 680001): With stabilizer set at 3½ negative setting to the thrust line, adjust trim assist unit 740128 for elevator up angle of 5° +/- 1 at the zero spring travel position. Elevator Trim Assist Unit (for Aircraft with Serial Nos. 680001 and up): With stabilizer set at 3 negative setting

The items to note are that the elevators moves 22' up and down AND that the "stabilizer" (used for longitudinal trim) is set at about 1' LEADING EDGE UP and about 5 1/2 degrees LE DOWN for travel limits. You need to level the airplane to measure this. 

Next and very important is the "zero spring force" setting of the elevators (elevator trim assist unit paragraph above) with the STABILIZER IS SET TO 3 1/2 degrees STABILIZER LEADING EDGE NOSE DOWN (in relation to the center line of the airplane,{air flow}) This means you will need to level the airplane front to back correctly before you can use the travel board to make this setting.  Set the stabilizer at 3 1/2 degrees LE DOWN and then measure how far UP the elevators project. They should show about 5 degrees UP WITH NO FORCE PUSHING OR PULLING ON THE BUNGEE SPRINGS. Kind of a neutral position. If they are not at 5 degrees then they are adjusted by loosening the jamb nut ON THE FORWARD END of the bungee rod (you need a crows foot wrench on an extension to do it) and then turning the entire bungee in or out of the forward rod end to get the correct setting. BOTH elevators need to match. Don't forget to check the witness hole in the forward rod end for thread engagement after setting the angles (ask your A&P what that is but it's important). 

At this same time, just to cover another base, check your tail for loose (worn) hinge bolts by moving the outboard end of the stabilizer tip up and down and fore and aft to see if you see any play or hear any clicking or noise. Go easy, you don't have to bend anything. If it's bad you'll feel it move.

If you can feel movement you may need to change the bolts. There are limits in the MM (near control surface balancing 3 small lines of info) but suffice to say it is a limit about a 10th of an inch either way measured at the tip of the stabilizer. Many times just changing bolts WITH THE CORRECT BOLTS cures the problem. 

Hope this helps.

[carusoam]

Nice details, Cliffy!

[Yetti]

I hand fly with finger and thumb pressure in all attitudes of flight.  There is something wrong with your plane.  Get it fixed.

[TheTurtle]

a small update to this.  I cleaned and lubed the jack screw for the trim.  I also disconnected the chains attaching the servos to the alierons and rudder.  I noticed when I had the panels off if I pulled on the chains I could pull the servos out but everything was tight and felt like it still had some vacuum even thought the engine was off.  So I just removed the chains completely.

Flew it today and OMG what a difference.  I can turn the damn thing like a normal plane.  Trim seemed to work much better as well.  I was just shooting local approaches so never got much over 150mph but I was able to stay level with no issues and didnt feel nearly as much resistance in the trim wheel.  Im doing my long XC under the hood tomorrow so Ill have more chance to see how it does straight and level and fast descents.

but did I mention holy *&^% I can turn now!!!

So Im going to yank out all the PC stuff and ship it to brittain for an overhaul.  I suspect its the pilot valve under the dash causing the issues but might as well get it all done at once while my better half is letting me spend money!

[carusoam]

Britain is an incredibly responsive device supplier.  Contact them for details about how best to get this stuff taken care of properly.  In case there are hidden details...

you can see how challenging these things can get.  Definitely good to have a mechanic working with you.

Best regards,

-a-

[Guitarmaster]

As far as the trim goes.  I had the same problem.  We (my IA and I) removed the jackscrew in the tail completely, cleaned, and re-lubed.  There was quite a lot of old, hard grease in there.  I thought this was the problem with not being able to trim full down and the "grinding" you are referring to.  It was not, although it may have been a contributing factor.

Next was the gearbox.  I found the chain from the cockpit to the gearbox nearly solid with old grease.  Soaked in some solvent, re-lubed.  Still did not solve the problem.

Next was the jackscrew coming out of the gearbox.  I found the aluminum block was binding on the edges of its guide.  In addition, the cable to the indicator was sticking, causing artificial "stops."  Upon cleaning and a little filing of the track the block sits in and lubing the indicator cable, all is well!  I can now trim it out at 197MPH hands off!

In my case, the indicator was causing all the problems .  You may want to check that.

 

Edited October 29, 2016 by Guitarmaster

[TheTurtle]

1 hour ago, Guitarmaster said:

As far as the trim goes.  I had the same problem.  We (my IA and I) removed the jackscrew in the tail completely, cleaned, and re-lubed.  There was quite a lot of old, hard grease in there.  I thought this was the problem with not being able to trim full down and the "grinding" you are referring to.  It was not, although it may have been a contributing factor.

Next was the gearbox.  I found the chain from the cockpit to the gearbox nearly solid with old grease.  Soaked in some solvent, re-lubed.  Still did not solve the problem.

Next was the jackscrew coming out of the gearbox.  I found the aluminum block was binding on the edges of its guide.  In addition, the cable to the indicator was sticking, causing artificial "stops."  Upon cleaning and a little filing of the track the block sits in and lubing the indicator cable, all is well!  I can now trim it out at 197MPH hands off!

In my case, the indicator was causing all the problems .  You may want to check that.

 

great info thanks.  If she doesnt trim out next flight those steps will be on my list!