Mid-Air at non-towered airport

[kpaul]

Sad, three dead in two aircraft.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/single-engine-planes-collide-midair-georgia/story?id=41923901

[David Mazer]

Very sad.  I just wish the "news" would make an effort to describe these events in a less sensationalized way.  They always make it sound like every possible tragic event was likely to happen rather than unlikely, i.e. "lucky it didn't happen over homes." Considering an average of 4 people on the ground are killed in aviation related events a year over the last 50 years it seems that statistically it is highly unlikely that houses or people on the ground would be involved.  Of course, they also don't mention the amount of aircraft movements at non-controlled airports to put this event in context.

[Danb]

So sad again, I was just reviewing operations at non-towered airports last night, haven't done that in a long time, I wonder why it donned on me,

Pray for there families

[Piloto]

Not rare. It happens because the pilots do not report their position or use the wrong frequency. These event happened below 1,000ft which is below ADS-B/UAT coverage. I had a similar event but landing at opposite ends of the runway. Luckily my Traffic-Watch alerted me of traffic on short final at the opposite end. So I step sided to the down wind and landed behind the traffic. The traffic was a student pilot on his first solo cross country. He had the COM set at his home base frequency.

José

[peevee]

4 minutes ago, Piloto said:

It happens because the pilots do not report their position or use the wrong frequency.

No, it happens for infinitely more reasons.

[gsengle]

Not rare. It happens because the pilots do not report their position or use the wrong frequency. These event happened below 1,000ft which is below ADS-B/UAT coverage. I had a similar event but landing at opposite ends of the runway. Luckily my Traffic-Watch alerted me of traffic on short final at the opposite end. So I step sided to the down wind and landed behind the traffic. The traffic was a student pilot on his first solo cross country. He had the COM set at his home base frequency.

José

After 2020 at least you'll have peer to peer ADSB so you won't go under coverage is my understanding.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pinerunner]

It's good to practice the best radio usage possible, but at an uncontrolled airport a fellow without a radio has a perfect right to be there. There's quite a range of practices at uncontrolled airports and quite a range of local attitudes towards how PIC's exercise their FAA given authority. You have to be vigilant for all the possibilities. Often preferred practices are published in the airport directory. A really busy uncontrolled airport can be tricky. Some have large jets mixing with piper cubs. 

[peevee]

2 minutes ago, pinerunner said:

It's good to practice the best radio usage possible, but at an uncontrolled airport a fellow without a radio has a perfect right to be there. There's quite a range of practices at uncontrolled airports and quite a range of local attitudes towards how PIC's exercise their FAA given authority. You have to be vigilant for all the possibilities. Often preferred practices are published in the airport directory. A really busy uncontrolled airport can be tricky. Some have large jets mixing with piper cubs. 

fleet mix is a big part of it. workload another. half the time i find people just arent looking. someone calls downwind and departing traffic turns cross to down blindly without looking for traffic

 

i doubt peer to peer adsb will be of much help. i have better things to do in the pattern than stare at a small screen. maybe if i had g1k

Edited September 8, 2016 by peevee

[Browncbr1]

i venture to speculate that one of those was on a straight in approach to final and the other didn't belly check before turning final.   Given the danger of straight in approaches at magenta airports, I'm surprised that so many pilots do it so often instead of just spending a couple more seconds to enter the pattern. 

[N9201A]

+1 on Nordo and local pilots.

Watched a Pitts depart then do 180 into downwind from 1/3 of way down runway, turning into and ahead of 2 planes on proper downwind who'd announced themselves.

When I learned to ride a motorcycle I got good advice that I use at U/C fields. Approach these airports like someone is trying to kill you.

[Piloto]

You are right Jim. If you fly below 10,000 and at outside of Class B/C airspace you do not need to have ADS-B equipment. Your old KT-76 will do.

José 

[gsengle]

2 minutes ago, pinerunner said: It's good to practice the best radio usage possible, but at an uncontrolled airport a fellow without a radio has a perfect right to be there. There's quite a range of practices at uncontrolled airports and quite a range of local attitudes towards how PIC's exercise their FAA given authority. You have to be vigilant for all the possibilities. Often preferred practices are published in the airport directory. A really busy uncontrolled airport can be tricky. Some have large jets mixing with piper cubs. 

fleet mix is a big part of it. workload another. half the time i find people just arent looking. someone calls downwind and departing traffic turns cross to down blindly without looking for traffic

 

i doubt peer to peer adsb will be of much help. i have better things to do in the pattern than stare at a small screen. maybe if i had g1k

Would help me, I get a loud aural alert when planes are close enough in the pattern now even at 500 ft...

At least more equippage will increase my odds

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OR75]

The airports I fear most for midairs are the one with skydiving activity.  Skydiving is great and I have absolutely nothing against it. My experience with pilots taking skydivers is that they feel that they own the airport and believe the "elevator" can cut in front of everyone else and take any runway. 

[gsengle]

My home field had one of the most notorious skydiving mid air collisions many years ago...

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/23/us/4-die-after-their-plane-collides-with-a-sky-diver.html

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[1964-M20E]

Sad

I was just flying a helicopter today transitioning a towered airport with  2 F-15s (multiple passes), 2 helicopters and 2 seaplanes most going in their separate directions and this was in just 5 minutes near the airport.

Earlier the the flight another helicopter was flying I don't know how I saw him he was about 100 feet landing at an off airport location and at least 2 other aircraft.  It was a busy day flying we have to keep our eyes open and moving.

 

And now an F-15 flying outside my office window busy day flying for the controllers.

[AaronDC8402]

6 hours ago, N9201A said:

Approach these airports like someone is trying to kill you.

My motorcycle logic has always been, assume you're invisible AND every other vehicle on the road is trying to kill you. Same logic is pretty good for flying, especially the invisible part.

[air cooled dad]

I fly near the accident airport.  The instructor flew out of the airport in my town.  It's a busy flight school.  The instructors and students are pretty good about position reports.  Last week I was cruising around fat, dumb and happy when I heard one of the instructors from the accident flight school make a position report 10 miles north of my home airport.  It was very close to my location so I checked out my traffic display.  Yikes!!  Losing fellow aviators is a tragedy.  Be safe everyone!!

Jason

[GeorgePerry]

15 hours ago, kpaul said:

Sad, three dead in two aircraft.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/single-engine-planes-collide-midair-georgia/story?id=41923901

 

AOPA RESPONDS TO CRASH REPORT

NBC STORY LACKS CONTEXT, CLARITY

 

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2016/september/08/aopa-responds-to-crash-report

[201er]

4 minutes ago, GeorgePerry said:

 

AOPA RESPONDS TO CRASH REPORT

NBC STORY LACKS CONTEXT, CLARITY

 

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2016/september/08/aopa-responds-to-crash-report

Good job countering with facts! What do you think is the biggest cause of accident reductions? Modern tech? Improving past issues in the system?

[GeorgePerry]

Its hard to point to any "one" thing.  I believe the reduction comes from a variety of reasons.  Better infosharing being one of them.  This forum is a good example of how communications is vastly different than it was just 10 years ago.  Second is the trend to move towards type specific training and CFI's that specialize in certain models.  Cirrus and Bonanza are good examples where that model has worked extremely well.  Lastly technology and information available in the cockpit.  If you look at two examples, GPS and the iPad, its easy to say those two innovations have changed the way most pilots fly. All of these factors along with the free safety education training that groups like the Air Safety Institute provide have helped move the needle.

[tony]

I fly in and out of this airport all the time.  Falcon must have a big contract with the Chinese govt.  Falcon likes to send their students over to practice but their students cant speak English.  They get on the radio and you don't have a clue what they are saying.   If you can understand them through their broken English, their position reports are usually wrong.  

[chrisk]

21 hours ago, gsengle said:

My home field had one of the most notorious skydiving mid air collisions many years ago...

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/23/us/4-die-after-their-plane-collides-with-a-sky-diver.html

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I flew that plane two weeks before it crashed.   It took the fun out of flying for many years.

[chrisk]

I had the experience of seeing a Mooney head on once.  --It's really small.   He was on left base, I was on right down wind.   The wings and tail basically disappear and your left with the fuselage.   Makes me very glad I put LED landing light in my bird and that I leave them on always.

[BruceLee]

9 hours ago, 201er said:

Good job countering with facts! What do you think is the biggest cause of accident reductions? Modern tech? Improving past issues in the system?

I like the Flight Safety Moto: "The best safety device in any aircraft is a well trained pilot"

[MyNameIsNobody]

George:  Thank you and AOPA for the reply.  I saw a report on ABC and it was highly sensationalized.  They too had the spin that "My goodness, there are non-towered airports all over the country and thankfully no-one on the ground was injured/killed".  So much more could have been done to point out the tragic loss of life but discuss ADSB and active traffic technology as well as see and avoid/communicate using radio...They have an agenda.  Unfortunately their audience doesn't often get the rational counterpoint discussing GA safety stats/relative rarity of mid-air collisions and improvements in tech here and coming...

Good reminder that the pattern is a place to be head up and out for All aboard.  Please share any updates to the accident.

Edited September 9, 2016 by MyNameIsNobody