Takeoff trim

[Guitarmaster]

Man there is a ton of great info in this thread.  Lots to go look at now.  I flew yesterday and gave it a little less up trim and started pulling lightly at 65mph and thing felt much smoother.  We went up to big bear with 9000DA and actually circled leaving before the ridge just to be safe.  Its was bumpy as hell.  Left way to late in the day but the dang plane wouldnt start so grabbed some lunch and went back to it.  Coming home was a rush.  All downhill in the yellow arc as soon as we hit smooth air.  I noticed that I ran out of down trim as I was trying to keep it around 500fpm.  Nearly 200mph ground speed.  !!  thats why I bought this thing right!  Shes definitely a squirlly bird in the bumps though.  Seems to have a lot of tail wag.

Rest your feet on the rudders when it is bumpy.

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Or let the PC take care of the rudder!

[Marauder]

Man there is a ton of great info in this thread.  Lots to go look at now.  I flew yesterday and gave it a little less up trim and started pulling lightly at 65mph and thing felt much smoother.  We went up to big bear with 9000DA and actually circled leaving before the ridge just to be safe.  Its was bumpy as hell.  Left way to late in the day but the dang plane wouldnt start so grabbed some lunch and went back to it.  Coming home was a rush.  All downhill in the yellow arc as soon as we hit smooth air.  I noticed that I ran out of down trim as I was trying to keep it around 500fpm.  Nearly 200mph ground speed.  !!  thats why I bought this thing right!  Shes definitely a squirlly bird in the bumps though.  Seems to have a lot of tail wag.

Rest your feet on the rudders when it is bumpy. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Or let the PC take care of the rudder!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

You'll lose your 39 true airspeed gain if you do that!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Guitarmaster]

Man there is a ton of great info in this thread.  Lots to go look at now.  I flew yesterday and gave it a little less up trim and started pulling lightly at 65mph and thing felt much smoother.  We went up to big bear with 9000DA and actually circled leaving before the ridge just to be safe.  Its was bumpy as hell.  Left way to late in the day but the dang plane wouldnt start so grabbed some lunch and went back to it.  Coming home was a rush.  All downhill in the yellow arc as soon as we hit smooth air.  I noticed that I ran out of down trim as I was trying to keep it around 500fpm.  Nearly 200mph ground speed.  !!  thats why I bought this thing right!  Shes definitely a squirlly bird in the bumps though.  Seems to have a lot of tail wag.

Rest your feet on the rudders when it is bumpy. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Or let the PC take care of the rudder! Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

You'll lose your 39 true airspeed gain if you do that!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Crap!! Stupid PC system.

[MB65E]

Late to the party but I have 2 external trim markings on my stab/fuse. Kinda Jet Stab trim setting like...They are red vinyl. 1/16 width, about an inch long. Other than the checklist, it's fun to visually see where the tail is when you landed. Flying at gross vs solo is drastically different. I have electric trim. After a normal landing with flaps, I trim down for takeoff for about 5 seconds. Always works well on take off. The tail is extremely powerful and trim should be respected. I'll probably check the trim indicator this annual.

-Matt.

[bonal]

On Thursday, August 18, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Bob_Belville said:

Uh huh. So, you just landed, short field, no wind, so you used full flaps and trim to as slow as possible for touch down - let's say 1.2 x Vso = 68 mias.

Now before you touch the trim wheel, where is it? (In my E is would be against the UP stop.)

Since I was asked and I remembered to test I got 6 pulls on the wheel which is subjective since we all may grab it at a different spot. point is lots of remaining nose up trim. touchdown was just a bit over 70mph

[Bob_Belville]

53 minutes ago, bonal said:

Since I was asked and I remembered to test I got 6 pulls on the wheel which is subjective since we all may grab it at a different spot. point is lots of remaining nose up trim. touchdown was just a bit over 70mph

That's with full flaps. Would you say you "fly in on"? @ 70 you're well about stall, do you ever hear the stall horn in flare? 

For what it's worth, I tend to do that as well and never hear the stall horn. But I'm still learning about the Mooneys I've been flying since '69... 

[bonal]

That landing was with 3 on the flaps with 4 being full down on mine.  No stall and I've received a bit of criticism on the old MS for being one that never lands on the horn. When I tried to change my evil ways I ended up bouncing and almost destroyed my airplane and perhaps me and my wife on the go around cause on the go with full flaps and a fair amount of nose up was not ready for how violent the pitch up was going to be even though I had been aware of it.  I definitely heard the stall on that one but not until after I was at full power with my nose pointing up as high as back in the days riding wheelies on my GS 1100.  Went back what works for me get nice smooth mains to nose with out a chirp.  My application of landing flaps is condition dependent sometimes full sometimes none.  As for the OP I checked my take off trim setting and its about half an indicator bar width into the take off position bar if that makes any sense.  Didn't take any pic's of the indicator I don't like to do things that alter my routine.

[MyNameIsNobody]

I apologize for challenging you to be able to land the airplane the way it was designed to be landed.  

Edited August 23, 2016 by MyNameIsNobody

[MyNameIsNobody]

Again, I don't care how anyone fly's their plane.  Fly it however you wish. There are a lot of different techniques...

 

[Hank]

No need to alter your routine, bonal. Just land, taxi in and don't reset the trim when you shut down. Then take a picture.

Going by memory, usually from getting ready to takeoff, I don't move the trim up much to reach just above Takeoff. Not down, I move it up. And I generally get a stall horn on landing, search Vimeo for "mooney landing KHTW" from several years ago; I had to add a little power to hold altitude (150' agl) to clear the trees on short final, then resume descent. Touchdown looks like the third stripe (of 13) at my previous 3000' home field.

[bonal]

Honestly I don't know why I bother. You all have a good night now. 

[Yetti]

For a 3% glide slope seems like landing half flaps is best.  Usually end up with a bar above takeoff setting for trim. Sometimes flying it on is best.  It's nice to talk about a no wind landing, but around these parts that is the rarest kind of landing.

[Hank]

On August 17, 2016 at 0:47 PM, Mooneymite said:

 

Look at where the trim indicator is after you land.  On a properly rigged Mooney, the "perfect landing trim" setting will be close to what you need for takeoff.  Landing may be about "a white indicator" width more back trim than takeoff, but it will be in the ballpark.  If your takeoff and landing trim settings are significantly different, take Clarence's advice and find a shop with rigging boards.

Finally made it out for some trim pictures. This is in my C, solo with full fuel minus an hours' cruise and two climbs to altitude.

Takeoff position (see my posts on the first two pages before the name calling and other silliness got so bad for details):

 

Here is my trim in level cruise, and the obligatory panel shot:

And after landing, my trim looks like this:

I set Flaps to Takeoff on downwind while slowing to 90 mph. Gear down, begin descent, turn base, turn final, slow to 85 mph; short final like this I'm targeting 70 mph; Flaps, throttle and yoke set as required to hold descent, speed and aiming point; flaps may have been as far below Takeoff as Trim was above for takeoff, wind was 7-10 knots almost down the runway.

Suit zipped up, extinguisher handy!  

[Yetti]

Mine is usually just above the take off indicator for landing. Another fan of half flaps landing.  Full Flaps is pushing alot of air down on the runway and makes it float.  And you are in a bad position for a go around.

Your screw heads are not lined up :-)   Difference between a mechanic and a craftsman.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Yetti

[Hank]

Just now, Yetti said:

 

Your screw heads are not lined up :-)   Difference between a mechanic and a craftsman.

Thanks, I never noticed. Also never touched this piece. Guess it's time to make sure they are all tight . . .

[Yetti]

don't go crazy.... too tight and you will crack the plexiglass

phillips head for the anal retentive you have to decide between straight up and a 45 degree.  The struggle is real

Edited August 31, 2016 by Yetti

[Marauder]

don't go crazy.... too tight and you will crack the plexiglass

phillips head for the anal retentive you have to decide between straight up and a 45 degree.  The struggle is real

Do you wash your hands 125 times a day as well?

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[Guitarmaster]

Mine is usually just above the take off indicator for landing. Another fan of half flaps landing.  Full Flaps is pushing alot of air down on the runway and makes it float.  And you are in a bad position for a go around.

Your screw heads are not lined up :-)   Difference between a mechanic and a craftsman.

Haha!!! I have a friend that "fixes" all the screws in my switch plates when he comes over.