New CEO at Mooney

[mike_elliott]

Just now, Guitarmaster said:

walking into a BMW dealership in jeans and a t-shirt.

I have done that. Left some $ on the way out in a 740IL

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, Oscar Avalle said:

I agree that Mooney does need to do a better job in getting market share. It seems to me that they are not aggressive enough in reaching out to new customers.

Just as an example at Oshkosh I went to look at the Cirrus display. A sales(?) person approached me and started asking me questions about what I was flying, what kind of flying I was doing. He suggested different ownership options (partnerships, etc)... He mentioned the BRS system and used it as a way of getting fearful fliers into the plane... (does your wife like to fly... or is she scared...)

Mooney: I had to look for somebody, I told him that I owned a Mooney... he said ahhhh... ok, told me I should have a look at the new planes and left. 

Was I in the market for a new plane... no. I don't have the money... May be I just look like a CB who hardly can afford flying what I have now... But still...

May be I am unfair and it was 9 AM in the morning and I just did not reach out to the right person, may be. But still....

I be interested in comments to this Oscar. I hope Mooney is doing some marketing and sales training work. It is a violation to Selling 101 to prejudge a prospect. I recall buying a new Mercedes 45 years ago dressed in worn jeans and a Tee shirt.  

 

[Bravoman]

 It was the same thing at sun and fun this year. I don't even think I was able To identify anybody associated with Mooney at their display, except for perhaps one or two people outside  who were handing out free plane and pilot magazines. 

[rbridges]

6 hours ago, Marauder said:

CY2016 is even worse for Mooney.

http://www.gama.aero/files/documents/2016ShipmentReport-Q2.pdf

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If I knew the 2 door mooney was around the corner, no way would I buy a 2016.  

[Marauder]

I agree that Mooney does need to do a better job in getting market share. It seems to me that they are not aggressive enough in reaching out to new customers.

Just as an example at Oshkosh I went to look at the Cirrus display. A sales(?) person approached me and started asking me questions about what I was flying, what kind of flying I was doing. He suggested different ownership options (partnerships, etc)... He mentioned the BRS system and used it as a way of getting fearful fliers into the plane... (does your wife like to fly... or is she scared...)

Mooney: I had to look for somebody, I told him that I owned a Mooney... he said ahhhh... ok, told me I should have a look at the new planes and left. 

Was I in the market for a new plane... no. I don't have the money... May be I just look like a CB who hardly can afford flying what I have now... But still...

May be I am unfair and it was 9 AM in the morning and I just did not reach out to the right person, may be. But still....

As Bob mentioned, it is Sales 101. I had the same experience at the Mooney booth. There was absolutely no effort on their part to qualify me as a prospective customer. Heck, they didn't even attempt to speak with me.

Try that in an Apple Store.

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[Marauder]

I wonder if it was because I had my cap on too...

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[rbridges]

23 minutes ago, Marauder said:

As Bob mentioned, it is Sales 101. I had the same experience at the Mooney booth. There was absolutely no effort on their part to qualify me as a prospective customer. Heck, they didn't even attempt to speak with me.

Try that in an Apple Store.

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That surprises me.  Seems like a "new" company would be chomping at the bits to get new customers into their fold. 

[Bob_Belville]

If you walked through Hanger A-D @ KOSH you were given multiple opportunities to buy all kinds of stuff, much only marginally related to aviation. I bought a pair of overpriced(?) sunglasses that I find are probably too dark to use in the plane.

While a new Mooney might not be better in every possible way I would have loved to have it to sell when I was peddling expensive stuff.

Old but relevant.  Skip to about 5:00. Great stuff. 

 

[MooneyMitch]

44 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

If you walked through Hanger A-D @ KOSH you were given multiple opportunities to buy all kinds of stuff, much only marginally related to aviation. I bought a pair of overpriced(?) sunglasses that I find are probably too dark to use in the plane.

While a new Mooney might not be better in every possible way I'd would have loved to have it to sell when I was peddling expensive stuff.

Old but relevant.  Skip to about 5:00. Great stuff. 

 

Ah, perhaps my concerns need not be concerns at all.

Perhaps Dr. Saxena has "selling" in mind to advance the brand. I truly hope so! 

[201er]

3 hours ago, Marauder said:

I wonder if it was because I had my cap on too...

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No, it's cause the useful load on the new Mooney could never haul the kind of women you hang around with!

[Marauder]

3 hours ago, Marauder said: I wonder if it was because I had my cap on too...

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No, it's cause the useful load on the new Mooney could never haul the kind of women you hang around with!

You're just jealous because my woman is 2X, er, 3X, I mean 4 times the woman your woman is.

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[kortopates]

On 8/16/2016 at 10:50 AM, Bravoman said:

I continue to believe that the only hope for the company to make it is if the M10 trainers find a real market here or abroad, which seems entirely possible particularly if aviation really explodes in China. If that happens, maybe it would be smart to phase  out the m20 line in favor of a new line that more closely resembles what seems to sell these days. 

 

On 8/16/2016 at 11:33 AM, KSMooniac said:

This is what I believe as well, but that is highly contingent on the M10 being a good airplane, that can be manufactured efficiently. That is certainly not a sure thing, and I expect that is why we're hearing of today's news...

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I think this is spot on. I am midway into a short-term gig flying for Mooney Intl in China and I am super excited about Mooney's prospects here in China. GA is truly on the verge of an explosion here.  There is a growing affluent middle class in China that is developing a pent up demand for GA. Not just to become pilots but also to leverage the potential utility of GA travel by hiring both plane and pilot for travel. But just looking at the growing pilot training interest here the only real competitors are new Cessna and Cirrus. China doesn't have an old 60's to 70's era GA fleet to draw on for training here; all GA training is being done with new imported aircraft, mostly Cessna and Cirrus. We all know the new Cessna and Cirrus trainers are very expensive. From my view, only the Cessna Turbo Skyhawk JT-A. and the Mooney M10T & J are positioned for success here because of their diesel engines. AVGAS is available but still rare here; giving a strong edge to those powered by Jet-A.  Both Cessna and Mooney are using the same Continental CD Diesel engines. But just like in our beloved M20's series, the M10T & J should should provide much improved efficiency and economy with their modern sleek composite lighter airframes. The M10J retractable will use the same larger CD-155 used in the Cessna but have a 11" wider cabin and in theory cruise over 30 kts faster than the Cessna. The fixed gear M10T uses the smaller more fuel efficient CD-135. I am making these comparisons solely to make the point that here in China the bar is not as high as you might think to be a big success in the GA training market that will explode in a few more years. Currently there are no 2+1 modern trainer airframes available here. My sense of the Chinese culture here is that although safety is very important, speed and efficiency far out weights concerns for a parachute and the M10T and M20J really look to blow away the foreseeable training competitors here. In addition to the aircraft, Mooney is also able to provide Redbird Full Motion simulators for their M20's due to their teaming with Redbird. I am sure that will enhance their competitiveness here in the training market; which is not individual owners but flight schools that will operate at the fleet level.  For the advanced pilots, the M20's will of course have to compere head on with the Cirrus here just like in America but personally I think Mooney still has a lot of time to work on improving its competitiveness if it really needs too. Its already getting lots of interest for being the fastest production aircraft. But I agree with Scott that improving useful load is more likely the bigger market factor.   

Still though success here in China is not just in the hands of the manufacturers. Unlike in America, it's seemingly much more complicated here by vast restricted airspace, government regulations and the military use of the airspace. I have been told that the government here is very committed to opening the airspace and claims they will within a few years (around ADS-B time in the US). A greater uncertainty though is the military's willingness to share the airspace with GA. Currently the government really has no control over the military, that is really going to have to come down from upper level government in Beijing. Air pollution is the other red herring that will challenge initial training that requires VFR conditions; especially to get away from the traffic pattern. So there are a lot of other complicating factors out of the control of airplane manufactures adding a lot of risk to the future GA timeline here. I suspect these issues will slow things down some but I really doubt they can stop the inevitable explosion of GA here. And for that I am really excited for Mooney - from my view they seem very well poised to be a winner. 

[N9201A]

Ni hao! Great update Paul. Have you heard anything about the release of airspace above 1,000 meters? The other unexpected factor inhibiting sales for everyone was the government focus on corruption, which spooked a lot of folks buying planes, as that could fall unwanted attention to oneself. It hit jet builders hard too.

Infrastructure remains a challenge but the Chinese aren't afraid to throw money and resources at that, once they've a goal in mind. And Chinese ownership will help Mooney there also, which can only help Mooniacs everywhere.

How long are you in China? If you're there in a couple weeks, lemme know what city you're in and let's grab lunch or dinner, I know some places...

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[carusoam]

Paul,

Do I have this right...?   You are reporting directly from China?

Mooney Pilots are the coolest people on and off the planet!

Best regards,

-a-

[MooneyMitch]

The Mooney well established reputation  speaks for itself..........Speed, style and safety [and its quality goes without saying].  

With all that in mind, and as part of the overall plan, the Mooney was chosen by Jerry and the Chinese investors...........for the Asian marketplace [not to mention Mooney Airplane Co. was in a prime financial position to be purchased].  To help carry out the plan, Jerry and the Chino gang, created the M10 specifically for the Asian market potential [and maybe sell some in the US].  So, again, it's business folks.............follow the marketplace to the money!  M10/Asia = $'s !

I'm still concerned, yet hopeful, about the fate of the M20 as we know it today.  Who knows............maybe a completely new 4 or 6 place Mooney?  Could it be called an M something, even though it would not be designed by Al Mooney?  The M10 is obviously not an Al Mooney sequential design.   Hmmm...........

Wishing you Paul, Mooney International Chino/Kerrville and all employed there, much continued success!  It is all very exciting indeed!!!

 

[MooneyMitch]

Oh yes, another concern is the continued manufacturing of Mooneys out of Kerrville, and for all those working there............M20's, M10's or M whatevers!!  Or is it Asia?

[mooneygirl]

The change of leadership has been in the works for nearly a year.  Jerry was a visionary for the company. But when it comes down to it, the company needs to be able to design, implement designs, get them certified and to market to be viable.  Dr. Saxena has been evaluating Mooney for some time now.  I hope his expertise in manufacturing will serve the company well.

The M10 is behind schedule and over budget.  The certification for the Ultras has been a nightmare, not because of anything Mooney is doing wrong.

I continue to be very pleased that our airplanes are manufactured in the United States and specifically Kerrville.  I was pleasantly surprised that Kerrville is doing the composite manufacturing. 

Hope to see all my Mooney Family at KERV October 20 through 23rd for the MAPA Homecoming.  It will be good to hear from Dr. Saxena there.  As well, Jan Maxwell and I will be teaching our companion seminar Right Seat Ready! at the factory.  Thursday all day seminar. Friday half day in the RedBird sim with Mooney CFII Luis Acosta.  [See PDF attached]

Right Seat Ready Flyer LS.pdf

[kortopates]

Ni hao! Great update Paul. Have you heard anything about the release of airspace above 1,000 meters? The other unexpected factor inhibiting sales for everyone was the government focus on corruption, which spooked a lot of folks buying planes, as that could fall unwanted attention to oneself. It hit jet builders hard too.

Infrastructure remains a challenge but the Chinese aren't afraid to throw money and resources at that, once they've a goal in mind. And Chinese ownership will help Mooney there also, which can only help Mooniacs everywhere.

How long are you in China? If you're there in a couple weeks, lemme know what city you're in and let's grab lunch or dinner, I know some places...

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Hi Larry,

Yes I'll be here through Sept 22. Who knows, but I might even come back out for some airshows.

I am in the Kansas of China, literally the middle of the country in Zhengzhou, capital of Henan. It's a city of 12million, but I am located 30mi east of downtown in the suburb Shangjie with an airport that is known as the GA and Experimental Capital of China. A location shared by many other aviation businesses in China. But although my location is nearby some tourist destinations, including the Shaolin Temple (Birthplace of Kung Fu), my location is far removed from tourism, which makes me a Class B celebrity I think I am the first western seen by a great many of the locals. To make the point further, when I walk around it's very common for people to ask to take my picture, but in China that means a picture of us both together. I hardly mind since 90% of those brave enough to ask are young woman. So I'll usually ask for one with my phone and I have quite a collection already.

Don't get me started on the airspace issues. It makes no sense and seems arbitrary and capricious. But when you need higher you'll get higher but in the south and east my limited understanding is yes, you'll be kept down to around 1000m for short hops. But for longer hops that go west and north you can get cleared into the O2 altitudes. The good news is that the government is reviewing these restrictions right now and I understand they have given assurances to lift them in s few years. But as I tried to allude to earlier, they need more than the support of the CAAC (Chinese FAA) they also need the support of the military which the CAAC has no authority over. Personally, I think the GA community here needs some lobbyist in Beijing to keep pushing the airspace issues further. One last point. To me the big China irony is that the roads are complete chaos with traffic, between cars, scooters, bikes etc with hardly anybody seemingly obey traffic lights. But not in the sky where it's far far more conservative or lacking in sharing the airspace with other traffic.

Regarding infrastructure though. I am very impressed with airport facilities out here. They had the land and didn't mess around and built large airports with large runways and huge terminals to allow for lots of future growth. Radar surveillance is pretty thorough too but of course we have no satellite based weather so frankly it's hard to fly with out after so many years of flying with it. It's Almost like flying in Mexico and Central America.

On ownership, my understanding is it is not yet possible for a private citizens to own an aircraft. Instead, aircraft are owned by businesses which include FBO and clubs that provide and maintain the aircraft and in some cases even pilots. But private ownership is probably not far off.

But I agree with many of your points; especially that Chinese ownership will help a lot here.

I am on Wechat when you make it over here.

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[kortopates]

Paul,

Do I have this right...?   You are reporting directly from China?

Mooney Pilots are the coolest people on and off the planet!

Best regards,

-a-

You bet I am. I am very lucky - I get to contract with two of my most favorite company's in Aviation: Mooney and Mike Busch's Savvy Maintenance!

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[N9201A]

I know Zhengzhou well, unfortunately. We had an apartment in Manhattan, near the only two expat places in the city.

And yes, it's not that common for locals to see Westerners, even with a city of 8-10 million. We had one engineer we always introduced as "Harrison Ford." Not being tall enough to pull that off, I usually went with "Clooney."

My WeChat is lawrencebrennan.

[MB65E]

21 hours ago, Oscar Avalle said:

I agree that Mooney does need to do a better job in getting market share. It seems to me that they are not aggressive enough in reaching out to new customers.

Just as an example at Oshkosh I went to look at the Cirrus display. A sales(?) person approached me and started asking me questions about what I was flying, what kind of flying I was doing. He suggested different ownership options (partnerships, etc)... He mentioned the BRS system and used it as a way of getting fearful fliers into the plane... (does your wife like to fly... or is she scared...)

Mooney: I had to look for somebody, I told him that I owned a Mooney... he said ahhhh... ok, told me I should have a look at the new planes and left. 

Was I in the market for a new plane... no. I don't have the money... May be I just look like a CB who hardly can afford flying what I have now... But still...

May be I am unfair and it was 9 AM in the morning and I just did not reach out to the right person, may be. But still....

I was there for at least 20 min at the booth. Airplane partner spent all of the 20 inside the new 2 door, with a nice gentleman that owned a stranded g1000 non WAAS ovation. They were in there and nobody stopped by.  We both gathered ideas about how to make our E cockpit nicer. Adding a pull handle on the door frame would help ingress/egress. The mock up had it. Not a single person said hello during the 20 min. 

But how hard is it to get one of the guys/gals to say hi and talk airplanes?... At Oshkosh, and no one wanted to talk airplanes???

[Marauder]

18 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

If you walked through Hanger A-D @ KOSH you were given multiple opportunities to buy all kinds of stuff, much only marginally related to aviation. I bought a pair of overpriced(?) sunglasses that I find are probably too dark to use in the plane.

While a new Mooney might not be better in every possible way I would have loved to have it to sell when I was peddling expensive stuff.

Old but relevant.  Skip to about 5:00. Great stuff. 

 

Boy Bob, I sure don't NEED a new Mooney but I sure do WANT one.

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

Boy Bob, I sure don't NEED a new Mooney but I sure do WANT one.

Not spending is unpatriotic. Borrow. Spend. Do it Now!

It's not $750,000 it's $4,300/month for 20 years. Get a couple of partners and it's just $1,433. I'll bet you're wasting more than that now on non-essentials, e.g. food and clothing.

[MooneyMitch]

Paul, this is just great, having you there as our "man on the street".

Of course, our ears are burning as we go forth starving for up to date and accurate information on the Chinese marketplace, airspace, GA there, and without saying, the current and future goings on of Mooney International there, and the Mooney legacy of which we are all so passionate about.

What better person could we ask for than you for this.......articulate and one of us!

Mooney International infrastructure in China?  Mooney and other GA manufacturing facilities(s), Mooney FBO(s), etc., if you are at liberty to speak of such please?

Possibly a new thread for your updates and further discussions would be appropriate.  MORE PLEASE!!!

Super exciting!   Thanks Paul.

 

[DXB]

24 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

Not spending is unpatriotic. Borrow. Spend. Do it Now!

It's not $750,000 it's $4,300/month for 20 years. Get a couple of partners and it's just $1,433. I'll bet you're wasting more than that now on non-essentials, e.g. food and clothing.

WOW with no down payment, this is basically a FREE new Mooney*    

BTW I got zero love at the Oshkosh Mooney booth either.   I'm deeply offended that they managed size me up correctly at first glance