Avionics Upgrade - GPS In-Panel

[Seth]

Hello MooneySpace:  The time has come to begin my research on adding in-panel GPS to my Mooney.  For this post, I would simply like to know what people use in their birds and what they suggest for install.  My aircraft is 1967 M20F.  I will later create a separate post once I have narrowed down my choices and will ask opinions on what will work well with my current avionics.  However I purposely have not posted those today as I want your unbiased (stop laughing) opinions on what could work, what system you would install, and what you have in your plane right now.  I will note that my aircraft is IFR capable right now and I am working towards my IFR rating. 

 

I will point out that I do have a portable Garmin 496 and I would love to add a new Garmin 430w into the panel so I can have Direct GPS and WAAS approach capability.  I would connect the two and allow the weather from the 496 to display on the 430w and for the crossfill feature to work.  The idea is to have a backup should I lose electrical power in the 496.  Please do take this into consideration the fact that I have a 496 (which is quite amazing) as I do not necessarily need the in-panel moving map.  That being said, that would be the most expensive install (well a 530w would be more) as I’m pretty sure I would need other work done as well.  If both money was a non-issue, nor resale value (the fact that a M20F is only worth so much no matter how much you put into it - though I do plan to keep it for a long time), I’d install the 430w and be done.  However, I have to think of other potential options.  In the future, years down the line, I may replace what I end up deciding on with a 430w once the next best box comes out and the price drops. 

 

Here are the three types of setup options I could go with: 

 

1)      GPS direct only system so that I can fly IFR, GPS Direct, and then use the ILS system to land (or VOR, or NDB).

 

2)      GPS direct AND GPS non-precision approach capable so I can use a GPS approach

 

3)      Full out WAAS with the 430w

 

I’m leaning towards option 2 – an older GPS type unit with approach capability (non-waas) – such as a KLN-89B, KLN-94, Apollo, GNC-300XL, etc (I know I left some out, please mention what would be good) . . .  If I can pick up a working or yellow tagged box from an avionics shop and install it for less than a third of the cost of a new 430w install, then that’s probably a winner.  I am leaning towards wanting GPS approach capability, hence option 2 instead of option 1.  If I can find a good deal on one, I’m also thinking about installing a 430 non-waas and then sometime down the line upgrading it.  I realize this would change the antenna.

 

Please take into account updating costs (database for legal IFR), factory support, maintence costs, other strange issues, etc . . . when sharing your opinions.  

 

Remember, these opinions should be independent of other equipment I have on board except for the Garmin 496.  For instance, if a certain radio makes sense to have with a certain unit, please let me know and why (I know a KX-155A will take input from a KLN-94, but I’m not sure what other models it will take input from, etc, or if only the 155A will but not the 155.  Does a Garmin GNC 300XL crossfill with the 496? – I obviously don’t know enough about this yet, but I'm sure some of you do).  Later once I have done more research and read all of these posts, I will then explain where I’m leaning and why, and list the equipment in my aircraft, and we’ll take it from there. 

 

So,

 

1. 
   
2. What would work?
   
3. What do you suggest?
   
4. What do you have in your airplane?
   

 

So, the flood gates are open: what is a good setup and why.  Thank you all in advance for your helpful advice.

 

[Amelia]

I finally bit a very large financial bullet a year or two ago, and installed a Garmin 530W to replace (to make room) the little factory-original in-wing wx-radar unit that never seemed to do much more than briefly confirm what the Mark IV eyeballs could see.   I'm very pleased with the 530W- its bright screen is very readable, and the autopilot-coupled  LPV approach is little short of astonishing. I don't have a Garmin portable, though that would be lovely for the reasons you've mentioned, plus the fact that there'll be a lot of transference between the two boxes-- you've already figured out your portable, and that will give you a nice boost, no doubt, in getting up to speed with the panel-mounted one. One of these days I'll have the 530's prodigious capabilities memorized and will be able to use them all on the fly, so to speak, but so far, if in a hurry and faced with a fast-moving clearance, a pencil, followed by 'Direct To' works just fine until there's time to fiddle with dials.

The Jeppeson database download is quick, but predictably pricey. It irks me considerably that money-grubbing Jepp decided to use expensive proprietary memory cards and docking station rather than much-cheaper stuff off the shelf at any electronics outlet.

[KSMooniac]

My 201 came with a 530/430 combo, and I added a 496 to get the WX capability and have a battery backup.  I also upgraded both units to WAAS before the special expired.  I love what I have, especially with GPSS & autopilot.  The combo makes single-pilot IFR much, much easier, and thus safer in my opinion.

If starting in your position, I would say I think the dual GPS is overkill.  Having a 530W plus a nice nav/com and a 496 is sufficient IMO.  I love the extra screen area and especially the Arc view (nav page 1) that isn't on the 430.  If the 530 is not an option, then a 430 is obviously the second best choice.  FYI, the 496 cannot push weather or any other data *to* a 430 or 530.  It can only receive flight plan info, which is very handy.  (I just installed the cable myself to do this!).  The 496 can connect to an SL30 or SL40, but it cannot connect to both a GPS and an SL30/40 at the same time.

Regarding your choices, you need to think about both the initial budget to purchase, but also the instl costs, utility differences between the boxes, and ultimately the resale potential.  You'll see planes on the market today without a GPS sit for a long time, even at a reduced price relative to others.  Like it or not, the 430 has become the de facto standard that a plane must have to sell in today's market!  You will pay close to the same installation costs for any GPS, so what you see as a big difference in purchase price among your candidate boxes will become a smaller difference when you add instl costs into the picture.  The absolute worst option IMO would be to put a lesser box in today, and then put a 430 or 530 in later...you'll pay for the labor twice.

I'd say at a minimum you'll want option 2 and shouldn't consider option 1 at all.  I believe in the northeast you can't even get GPS-direct much at all, so it buys you very little.  With your 496 you can indirectly get it in the IFR system by asking for a direct clearance and suggesting a heading to ATC (from your 496) and many times you'll get it.  (Technically you'll be cleared by a radar vector, but they know the game and it works.)  GPS approaches are much simpler IMO than VOR and especially NDB, so I think it would be wise to get approach capability even without WAAS.  There are more and more GPS approaches all the time, so you might as well equip for them.  You'll also only find ILS approaches at the bigger airports, not everywhere you might intend to go in the future.  GPS WAAS approaches are growing like weeds since they're so cheap relative to an ILS installation...ultimately I expect we won't see any new ILS installations if we're not there already.

Looking farther down the road, having WAAS plus an autopilot and GPSS is the ultimate!  That combo will fly hands-off flight plans and approaches, including holds, DME arcs, procedure turns, etc. 

A compromise or interim solution might be to find a used 430 box and install it, and upgrade it later to WAAS when budget allows.  That would be wise since you won't have significant installation costs down the road to upgrade...assuming the antenna cable is the newer coax that is compatible with the WAAS antenna. 

The GNS-480 has a cult-like following and is a very good WAAS box from everything I've read, but I have no experience with it.  I have no idea what prices are on used units, and there is a risk from the standpoint of future support down the road.  Some of the older Apollo GPSs are now going to be difficult to support since some sub-component manufacturer has quit the business.  King support is also spotty and expensive from what I understand, and the first thing that goes wrong with a KLN-89 could end up costing more than you paid for it. 

At the end of the day, I think you should find a way to go with a 530 or 430!  Perhaps sell your neighbor's kidney or something....   Good luck!

[Amelia]

Oh, yeah, and you DO want the approach capability. You just do, if you can possibly manage it. That GPS approach with vertical guidance to LPV minima is available at many airports that can't afford an ILS, and it's remarkable. At my airport, it's a 350 ft. min, and absolutely spot on, right down to the numbers.  My first demonstration (hey, y'all, watch this!) of its coupled-approach capabilities made my non-flying spouse feel quite positive about the possibility of his landing the thing and surviving, even in bad weather, if I croaked in mid-flight.

[Rustler]

Here's another second--third?--to the fact that a 430W is really the minimum GPS box for serious flying. And I'm biting that bullet this coming week with the installation of a new 430W and GPSS. The GPS steering is pretty inexpensive, as things go in the airplane business, at around $1500, and with that addition, you really have the ability to fly comfortably with backup  in most weather. The installation cost for the GPSS is minimal when done with the GPS, and once it is done, that's it. The stuff I read shows more and more GPS approaches with vertical guidance being published at smaller airports and that the trend may well be for the ILS to go away slowly in favor of those new approaches. They cost nothing to maintain, and my experience shows the glideslopes to be much smoother than those of many ILSs.

I went around and around about the 430 vs another box, and the Garmin ended up being the most cost effective. I found one (430W) with only 10 hours on it in Shenandoh, VA, that I almost bought ($8995 installed) but couldn't spend the time to have it done. I don't know if that one is still available, but if you're interested, post an e-mail, and I'll put you in touch with the installer.

The other candidate was the 530, but I thought it too big for the panel where I wanted to put it. I'd still love to have one and an MFD.

 

 

[Amelia]

If money's an issue (when isn't it?) you may decide to postpone the GPSS purchase. My avionics installer offered me the add-on for just under $1000 if I recall correctly, and I declined. Figured if I couldn't read the little note on the screen and twist a heading bug accordingly, all by myself, I ought not  to be flying a complex aircraft in the first place. It still doesn't seem to be a problem.

[N9660M]

Seth, I'd also recommend the 430W.  Flying an LPV approach is essentially the same as flying an ILS, and the minimums are nearly as low.  It's the way of the future, so might as well equip for it now if you're going to spend the $$ to get a GPS installed.

Besides a 430W, my M20F also has  an STEC-30 w/GPSS and altitude hold.  This set up makes single pilot IFR much, much less work load intensive.  Would highly recommend it if within your budget.

Good luck, Jim. 

[GeorgePerry]

Seth

Of course everyone either wants a 430 / 530 or plans to get one...but let’s face it, even if you buy a used one you’re looking at dropping $9-10K with installation.

If your looking for a low cost / high utility option you might want to consider the Apollo GX line of GPS’s.  The GX-50 is an IFR enroute and (non precision) approach certified NAV GPS.  I have one in my plane and I love it.  That’s not to say I don’t like the Garmin products...they are great pieces of gear.  Infact I fly several locally owned business aircraft and they all have Garmin 530 / 430 set ups.  They are nice, but after getting back into my personal aircraft I find that I don't really miss not having a Garmin to drool over because my GX 50 does all that I need it to do.

If you want a GPS NAV/COMM Apollo also made the GX-60.  The same functionality as the 50 but with a radio built in.

You can pick up a used GX-50 on ebay for about $1000.  A GX-60 goes for a bit more.  Garmin still supports both units through jeppesen data updates, which is not the case for some king products.  If you don’t want to hassle with ebay you can checkout fully reconditioned units at bennet avionics.  http://www.bennettavionics.com/gps.html  (and no...I don't work for them.  They just have good stuff)

You should be able buy the GX-60 GPS($1200-ish), get a Jeppesen database subscription ($350) and have the box installed ($1000ish) for under 3K.  No bad for an IFR approach certified GPS NAV/COM.  If I remember your bird's panel, there's a big RNAV unit that the GX box would fit nicely into without alot of modification.

Hope this is helpful...Good luck.

 

[Chris White ex-N205KD]

Uh-oh:

Future Service on Apollo GX Products Impacted by Critical Component Availability:

Garmin offering customers upgrade path to GNS430W and GNS530W series products.

The availability of spare display boards for the Apollo GX series of GPS navigators is depleted and the original parts manufacturer has discontinued producing the parts.

Garmin will continue to support the GX products with repair service as long as possible, but as a result of these events Garmin is launching a trade in program for GX owners with non-repairable units. For a limited time customers can purchase a GNS430W / 530W series product at a discounted price.

The program enables affected Apollo GX customers to upgrade to a Garmin WAAS navigator offering many advanced features including: precision LPV approaches, vertical guidance on thousands of GPS approaches, primary navigation, terrain alerting, and many other capabilities the older GX products do not support. Owners can trade in their TSO C129 GX-series unit and receive between $1,000 and $2,000 off the list price on any new Garmin 430W / 530W series product.

The trade-in value depends on the model number of the Apollo GX. GX55 owners will receive $1,000 off the list price of any GNS430W / 530W series product; GX65 owners qualify for $1,500 off, GX50 owners $1,750 off, and GX60 owners can receive $2,000 off the list price.

This is a limited time offer by Garmin that will expire December 31, 2009.

Quote: GeorgePerry

Seth

Of course everyone either wants a 430 / 530 or plans to get one...but let’s face it, even if you buy a used one you’re looking at dropping $9-10K with installation.

If your looking for a low cost / high utility option you might want to consider the Apollo GX line of GPS’s.  The GX-50 is an IFR enroute and (non precision) approach certified NAV GPS.  I have one in my plane and I love it.  That’s not to say I don’t like the Garmin products...they are great pieces of gear.  Infact I fly several locally owned business aircraft and they all have Garmin 530 / 430 set ups.  They are nice, but after getting back into my personal aircraft I find that I don't really miss not having a Garmin to drool over because my GX 50 does all that I need it to do.

If you want a GPS NAV/COMM Apollo also made the GX-60.  The same functionality as the 50 but with a radio built in.

You can pick up a used GX-50 on ebay for about $1000.  A GX-60 goes for a bit more.  Garmin still supports both units through jeppesen data updates, which is not the case for some king products.  If you don’t want to hassle with ebay you can checkout fully reconditioned units at bennet avionics.  http://www.bennettavionics.com/gps.html  (and no...I don't work for them.  They just have good stuff)

You should be able buy the GX-60 GPS($1200-ish), get a Jeppesen database subscription ($350) and have the box installed ($1000ish) for under 3K.  No bad for an IFR approach certified GPS NAV/COM.  If I remember your bird's panel, there's a big RNAV unit that the GX box would fit nicely into without alot of modification.

Hope this is helpful...Good luck.

 

[Rustler]

Garmin, right now, is offering a $1000 trade-in allowance for any of the Apollo GX line (50, 55, 60) when you purchase a 430/530.

 

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: mooney205kd

[randypugh]

Here's a twist. I've been flying behind the King KLN94 in different airplanes and it works great. I found that a KLN94 and MX20  to work great and in the future you can build on the MFD as you can afford. (add trafic, weather ect...) It comes with terain and charts and was less to purchase than the 430/530 options I put the 200 in my Mooney. Check out my panel in the photo galleries under playinmechanics photos. In the mooney I have XM weather and chartview. Am going to add active traffic soon since I'm not impressed with TIS that I had before. I wouldn't be surprised if your 496 would play on the MX20, but I don't know for sure.

[Seth]

I’d like to thank everyone for the opinions so far and do ask that if anyone else has an opinion I’d like to hear it (and probably so would others here at MooneySpace).  I would have written earlier but when I clicked submit, I had timed out, and lost my post.   So, here is the re-written version.

Option 1, GPS direct only with no approach capability whatsoever is out the window.

The consensus on from what I’m hearing is that if you have the financial means, go with the 430/530 as it is the standard these days and it will increase the value of the aircraft for resale (though that is a far far way off) by about $7500 whereas with any other older product you get very little of your investment back (if any at all).   Also, from what I am hearing, the LPV WAAS approaches are amazing.  The ILS (and in my opinion VOR and NDB) approaches and stations will in time break, and simply not be repaired until they are gone.  GPS is the wave of the future.  WAAS made that possible.

My current avionics include the following:

King KX-155 with glideslope (less than two years old)
King KI-209 Indicator with glideslope
King KNS-80 RNAV with glideslope and DME
Wilcox Indicator with glideslope
King KY-97 COMM
King KR-86 ADF with timer
King KMA-24 Audio Panel
Sigtronics SP-400 4-place Intercom
Garmin GNS-320A Transponder (less than two years old)
BF Goodrich WX-950 Stormscope

So, what should I remove for the GPS?  Do I get a legacy Garmin 400/500 and keep both radios?  Do I replace one of them with a GPS NAV/COM?  I have space in my panel to work with.  Do I take out both the RNAV and KY-97?  I know I’ll probably have to put a new indicator in to make this work, and I know with a 430/530 there is a measurement rule on how far it can be from the indicator, so that could also be a cost (does anyone know that rule)

Interesting was the suggestion about the KLN 94 and a MFD device – interesting twist Randy.  I will look into that, though my gut says if I can afford both of those, to then go with a Garmin 430w despite the added capability of the MFD.  I guess I could always add an MFD later as well. 

Amelia – why did you choose the 530 over the 430?  Was it the display modes (ARC view) and screen size?  That would be nice.

I’m also thinking of a legacy 430/530 system and when the time comes down the road upgrading to WAAS if I can find a good deal on a 430/530 unit.   I still have some research to do.  That was a good suggestion for compromise.  The WAAS units do though use a different antenna, not sure about the coax cable.

However due to already having a Garmin 496, I’m still seriously considering one of the older units such as the Apollo GX-50 or GX-60 as George mentioned, or potentially the KLN-89B, 90B, 94.  I know that the 89B and 94 use the same space and literally can be swapped one for the other (same trey).  So if the 89B ever broke, I could either fix (costs are high I hear) or swap for the 94 at that time. 

I also realize that its not just about the box cost but the install costs that would double or triple I were to have two or three separate avionics changes on my way to a Garmin 430w/530w.  Believe me, I’m taking that into consideration as well.

Though their owners swear by them (similar to Mooney owners about their birds) I have decided to cross of a Garmin 480 as if I were to go that route I’d just as well go the 430/530 route.  KSMooniac – thank you for the advice on all the different routes.

I’m planning to call avionics shops starting tomorrow to see what ballpark prices are going to be.  Rustler - I found the advertisement for the 430w in Virginia for $8995 installed; it was still available over the weekend.  I’m based less than an hour from there by air, so I may have to see if that’s a

GPSS and autopilot will get a separate thread when the time comes but I will want GPSS should the box allow it.  That thread will be another fun one, and Jim I expect how you chose the S-Tec 30 on that one instead of another system.

I am now stuck dead in the middle not leaning either way for either a Garmin 430w/530w, used Garmin 430/530, older gps system (KLN, Apollo, Garmin).  I’ll have to see what the projected costs are at this point. 

Now that the information on my avionics are out there, and my thought process (garbled, I know) is understood – any further suggestions? 

 

 

[KSMooniac]

With your current panel, I would retain just the KX-155, and ditch the KNS-80, KR-86, and KY-97.  The KY-97 might have some residual value to re-sell (or trade-in at a shop) while the -80 and -86 might get you perhaps a few hundred bucks each...someone that has a balky unit and doesn't want to upgrade yet might buy one for a spare. 

I've never seen a GNS-400/500 installed anywhere and wonder who uses them.  I would rather have fewer boxes installed in the panel to save space and reduce weight.  You will probably recover several pounds of useful load by losing the KNS-80 and KR-86 in case you haven't thought of that yet! You also might consider ditching the KMA-24 and Sigtronics intercom for an integrated GMA-340 audio panel/intercom, or a PS Engineering unit.  (It is fun to spend other people's money, isn't it?)

Regarding the 430 vs. 430W antenna coax...the older 430 can use the better coax (I don't remember which spec it is), so if you put in a non-WAAS box you can string the right coax for a future upgrade and not have to do it again.  The antenna swap is pretty simple, and the new box would just plug right in.  Another future cost-saving tip would be to have the wiring harness pre-wired for an autopilot, or an engine monitor, etc.  I have the STEC-30 and a JPI EDM-700 with fuel flow, and both of these of course are wired to my Garmins.  It would cost just a little more while the shop if fabricating the harness to leave you those options, so when you add more later, they can essentially plug in and the shop wouldn't have to go digging around back there.  Believe me...it is a PITA to do so! 

The 430/530 will meet the regs to install without a separate annuciator if you put it in the center stack of a Mooney, so put it there even if you have to move stuff around.

Sun n Fun is coming up in about 8 weeks, and there might be some good specials from shops or Garmin, and it would be worth asking your shops that you contact if they foresee anything coming down the road.

Good luck!

[N207LS]

I recently went through this process and ended up with my "dream panel" in my 1968 G model.  First, I had to decide how long I was keeping the plane (to justify it).  I realized that I have no intention of selling my plane in the forseeable future, so I took the full plunge...

I added a 530W, EI UBG16, EI Fuel Flow, EI Voice Annunciator, PS 7000B, GTX330 (TIS Traffic) and 496 for the yoke (with XM)...  It is awesome to fly with everything now.  I also repositioned everything in the panel and added new-lites to all of the non back lit instruments.  Finally the shop fabricated new panels (flat black) to put everything in.  All of the work was done by Tomlinson Avionics in Fort Myers, FL and I could not have been happier...  I truly love the plane and fly it ruitinely in hard IMC. 

I removed an Apollo SL60 and 360 VFR Moving map, KT76A, Terra Nav, Terra ADF and Geneve audio panel.  I did keep my King 125 Nav/Com as my #2, my DME, as well as my stormscope.  Other than that all else was new.  

This was not a cheap or easy undertaking, but it was what I really wanted.  I like the 530 over the 430 purely for the size of the display.  In my opinion it is worth the extra to see it easier when getting bounced around in the clouds.  All in all, the bills were $25k.  Looking back at it, I would do the same thing again.  Not cheap, but worth every penny in my opinion... 

I would suggest buying the best panel that you can afford and really check out the installing shop's work...  I looked at other jobs done by my shop and only then did I decide to use them.  I had other quotes for less $$, but when spending $20k+ A few hundred $$  more was worth it in my opinion. 

I really appreciate my panel every time that I fly!

 

[eaglebkh]

Seth,

I just had a 300XL installed in my plane and pretty much had similar choices to make as you do.  In the end, I selected the 300XL over the 430w for 2 main reasons:

1) Cost.  I simply couldn't afford spending twice as much for the 430w than the 300XL.  I wasn't interested in a fancy moving map, so long as I could cross-fill onto my portable.

2) No published LPV's at home base yet and 3 airports within 40nm with an ILS; 1 within 12nm.  So I decided a basic IFR en route and non-precision approach GPS would be sufficient.  Bottom line, I can make it home if the weather is below non-precision minimums.

Aside from no WAAS, one negative regarding the non-WAAS boxes is that you'll need to install an annunciator (an extra $1k installed).  I am very pleased with the 300XL so far.  I have GPSS and it really flys the plane quite nicely.

I had the WAAS antenna cable installed as well, so one day when I save enough money for a 430w it should be an easy swap, since I have another nav antenna not being used right now (removed KX-125 for the 300XL).

[Seth]

Last night I attended an AOPA seminar in Gaithersburg, MD, entitled GPS from the ground up and after listening to the presentation and speaking with users of the different types of systems, I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with option 3 and get either a 430w or 530w.  I won't purchase it for quite some time (probably a year or so) but that's the direction I plan to head - so thank you for your advice on this post.  It just makes the most sense with the capability added.

Anyone else attend last night?  I know there are not of us Marylander’s on the board, just wondering.

Does anyone know if the Aspen Avionics is WAAS capable, or if it needs some sort of other GPS device to drive it?  I really don't know enough (though I'll go do research).  The reason I ask, is because if I'm looking at a 430w vs 530w, why not throw in the Aspen PFD for price comparison and capability comparison.  I realize I’m looking at a major capital investment, but over time it will be worth it.

Any thoughts?  I know Roberto had an Aspen in his previous Mooney - anyone else fly with one?

 

[Chris White ex-N205KD]

Seth,

We just installed an Aspen Pro in our 205 (see our gallery page for images - it is cool if I do say so myself!).  The Aspen does have an integrated GPS, but it is for backup ONLY.  If you lose your primary GPS, the Aspen's unit will fill in. 

You will have to couple it to another GPS source for regular use.  We put in a WAAS 530 at the same time, replacing a KLN-94.

Pricewise, it will largely depend on where you have the installation done.  Ours was done by Gann Aviation in northern Georgia (9A5), and I do not think you will find a more reasonably priced shop.  It  did take a while as we were behind a G600 install, but once they got into it, they had it done in short order.  Our Aspen install was about $10.5k, the 530W $14.1k.

Go to one of the big-name shops, and you will likely pay thousands more.  We had quotes from Sarasota Avionics and the like for around $14k for the Aspen.

Let me know if you have any other questions.  I'd be happy to help.

Quote: Seth

Does anyone know if the Aspen Avionics is WAAS capable, or if it needs some sort of other GPS device to drive it?  I really don't know enough (though I'll go do research).  The reason I ask, is because if I'm looking at a 430w vs 530w, why not throw in the Aspen PFD for price comparison and capability comparison.  I realize I’m looking at a major capital investment, but over time it will be worth it.

Any thoughts?  I know Roberto had an Aspen in his previous Mooney - anyone else fly with one?

 

[eaglebkh]

I am still getting the kinks worked out in my Aspen unit (had to replace 2 of the components). Other than that I am very pleased with the system. C-Cubed Avionics in Huntsville, AL, installed my unit for MSRP ($9.9k). But I had several other things done (Garmin 300XL, A/P, new panels), so I may have gotten a reduction on the labor cost.

I am still running through an acceptance test plan for my new avionics, and one of the things on the list is to fly some GPS approaches while turning off the GPS at various points. I'll let you know when I'm done how the Aspen GPS performs in the absence of the Garmin input.

[eaglebkh]

Seth,

Which type of panel layout do you have - modern or vintage?  That will have a huge bearing on the Aspen install...

[Chris White ex-N205KD]

Would you mind posting or sending me your test plan for the Aspen? 

Quote: eaglebkh

I am still running through an acceptance test plan for my new avionics, and one of the things on the list is to fly some GPS approaches while turning off the GPS at various points. I'll let you know when I'm done how the Aspen GPS performs in the absence of the Garmin input.

[eaglebkh]

Chris,

Here's a basic test plan that I derived from a few that I've seen before. There are some parts that don't pertain to the Aspen because it's an overal test of the A/P, GPS, and Aspen.

Enjoy!

 

Acceptance Test Plan

1. Check agreement between the EFIS and the round gauges

a. Airspeed

b. Altitude

c. Vertical Speed

d. Turn Coordinator

e. Attitude

2. Test the HSI and each of the RMI’s using the GPS and NAV (simultaneously)

a. HSI with GPS and RMI with NAV

b. HSI with NAV and RMI with GPS

3. Verify the display of the basemap and flight-plan on the EFIS

4. Re-peat steps 1-3 using the back-up battery (reversion mode)

5. Have the autopilot track a GPS flight plan

a. Turn anticipation

b. Check identification of source and name/freq on the HSI and each RMI

c. Left or right offset (0.5nm)

d. Test the EFIS GPS by turning off the 300XL before/after IAF and FAF

6. Verify that the GPS is in the “ARM” mode at 30nm from destination and in the “APR” mode within 2nm of FAF.

7. Have the autopilot hold a heading, and alter the heading to ensure smooth
turns without excessive banking.

8. Engage the Altitude Hold and test sensitivity to trim

9. Have the autopilot track a VOR radial, both inbound and outbound

a. Check identification of source and name/freq on the HSI and each RMI

10. Have the autopilot fly a GPS approach

11. Have the autopilot couple to an ILS; test backcourse ability as well

[KSMooniac]

Those Aspen quotes sound good...last year I was quoted 12.5-13.0 AMU to install one as well as remove my entire vacuum system.  It would be great if they come down a bit more!

[eaglebkh]

I got a quote from Sarasota as well, and it was $3k higher than the local shop here that I ended up using.

From my discussion with my installer, it was much easier for him to install the Aspen than the alternative - vacuum DG with heading bug for A/P. Since I didn't have a heading bug or A/P before, all the wiring would have to be done from scratch. He said with the Aspen, it would eliminate having to run 50+ wires. An Aztec was in the shop at the same time getting a mechanical HSI swapped out for an Aspen. It looked like the Aztec had barfed up a giant hair ball with all the old wiring...

[Chris White ex-N205KD]

We sold about $7k in old equipment when we did the Aspen / 530W install.  Took a bit of the bite out of the $25k bill. 

If you have an HSI to remove for one of these, better get it out quick.  When the Aspen came to market, King HSI's were fetching $6000.  When we pulled ours out in January, it got $3500. 

Quote: KSMooniac

Those Aspen quotes sound good...last year I was quoted 12.5-13.0 AMU to install one as well as remove my entire vacuum system.  It would be great if they come down a bit more!