Replacing carpet...need advice

[par]

I am in the process of installing new carpet in my C. The floor has been completely cleaned and I have a few questions about a couple items before I press forward. First, should I put down some kind of sound deadening material like they do in cars before I install the carpet? If so, what should I use and what is the cheapest place to purchase it? The carpet I am using is from Airtex and they are telling me it comes with some foam backing. The main thing I'm worried about is making the carpet too thick and the seats not being able to move easily or having issues with the johnson bar. I would appreciate any other tips you guys might have as this is my first attempt at such a project.

 

I would also like to replace the little piece of cloth around the base of the Johnson bar but I'm sure any OEM product is absurdly expensive. Is there a cheaper option?

Edited December 30, 2015 by par

[Bob_Belville]

I redid the interior of my '66E 3+ years ago. I had a local auto trim shop make new carpet panels using the old ones as pattern. We used contact adhesive to bond silver 1/4"(?) insulation to the carpet backing. I then used Heavy Duty Velcro strips to hold the carpet in place. Very satisfactory and easy to remove @ annual time.

I would not think you'd want to add more insulation if the Airtex comes with insulation. The seats should not care about the carpet thickness though you want to have a little space beside the rails. The JBar is another matter. I hope you have access to jacks. You'll want to try raising the gear on the ground to be sure you can get the bar to lock in the floor receptor. The critical point will probably be right behind the hole in the floor though yours look good in that area. (My JBar leather boot is on top of the floor there reducing bar clearance. 

There are several pics in my gallery:

http://mooneyspace.com/profile/8913-bob_belville/?tab=node_gallery_gallery

[jetdriven]

I tried glue and I tried velcro. The glue holds down the backing, but the backing shreds and separates from the carpet. Then I tried velcro, but the velcro glue wont hold it. Especially on the passenger side where people step in and out, it pulls the carpet forward.

 

But male snaps on the floor and female snaps on the carpet hold it without moving.  Two on each rear edge of the carpet, two near the front of the center strip. one between each of the rudder pedals. Also, 4 under the front of each seat.   I got them at sailrite, along with the tools.

 

Order Details
 
Part #    Qty.    Description    Price    Amount
333120    22 EA    Snap Fastener Machine Screw 3/8" #8-32 (Nickel Plated)    $0.44    $9.68
444050    16 EA    Snap Fastener Normal Action Socket (Stainless Steel)    $0.22    $3.52
333010    22 EA    Snap Fastener Button Silver 1/4" Barrel (Nickel Plated)    $0.17    $3.74
25204    1 EA    Snap Fastener Installation Tool    $2.95    $2.95
333058    6 EA    Snap Fastener Hard Action Socket (Nickel Plated)    $0.20    $1.20
104223    2 FT    Tape Shelter-Rite 18oz White 3"    $0.99    $1.98
               Subtotal:    $23.07
               Shipping:    $8.81
               Tax:    $0.00
               Order Total:    $31.88

 

[mike20papa]

I went with what the AC industry calls "non textile" carpet or floor covering.  I found some remnants on EBAY and I think the stuff is fantastic.  It is an embossed carpet like surface, that is a fiber reinforced silicone material that is backed with a thin dense foam - the complete thickness is about 3/16" or so.  It wears like nails, lays & stays flat like a sheet good, water/oil proof, sound absorptive and doesn't look to shabby, either.  Here's a link to some similar material.  My experience with textile carpet was hopeless.  It's amazing when you pull the carpet out..just how small it actually is!  Good luck!

http://www.h-a-i.de/html/products/floor.html

[carusoam]

Good news: Road noise is at a bare minimum at 11,500'.  Automotive solutions may not be that helpful.

I went with Airtex for my '65C...

The challenge of going too thick is the J-bar has a problem with your decision....

they also have some things to cut back any air leaks around the pedals and J-bar.

Airtex is a great CB solution provider.

Best regards,

-a-

[aaronk25]

The only way the seats won't move is if you get cute like I did and reduce the size of the openings for the seat slides. I didn't like the way the carpet has such large allowance for seat slides so I had the carpet supplier tighten up the pattern. For the first year after I paid the price but now it's not a issue.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ryoder]

Airtex fits fine and allows free seat motin.  I poked holes in mine and installed the little plastic pegs to hold it in place.  Airtex told me I should glue it down to increase longevity.  I haven't done so yet.  The foam backing is weak and won't hold up under stress I think.

[par]

I am definitely going with Airtex carpet as I have already ordered it but like everyone mentioned, the glue method doesn't seem like its all that great. The previous carpet was in absolute shambles as well with the foam breaking off the back of the carpet. I figured much of this was due to the vast amounts of fuel that had been leaking into the cockpit before I purchased the plane but based on the comments so far that may not have been the entire issue.

 

Jetdriven,

I was thinking of going the button route but I assume I will need to keep the belly pans off to install the buttons into the floor. How long did it take you to do everything? Also, how did you punch holes in the carpet and ensure everything was in the proper spot so the carpet didn't bunch up later?

[Yetti]

I bought 4 or 6 yards of automotive carpet for a $130 dollars or so and used the old carpet as a pattern.   I rough cut it with some overage.  Then went to the plane with a pair of scissors and custom cut it.   I used the 2 inch velcro black and and the  1 inch white in long strips.   Seems to be holding.   No backing I bought the edging but not sure I will put it on.  One plane interior shop said they did not have the pattern for the my model plane so I had to pull it out send it off and wait then reinstall.  It was faster to just do it myself.

Dove Grey.  Passed the burn test with flying colors.  I have enough left over to do another complete set if it ever gets thrashed.

 

 

[Bob_Belville]

5 hours ago, jetdriven said:

I tried glue and I tried velcro. The glue holds down the backing, but the backing shreds and separates from the carpet. Then I tried velcro, but the velcro glue wont hold it. Especially on the passenger side where people step in and out, it pulls the carpet forward.

 

 

I used 2" wide "industrial" Velcro. Since I had 15' in the box I purchased at Lowes I used three 12"+ long strips on each carpet under the seats, parallel to and between the seat rails. The carpets have stayed put for over three years and are easily removable for shampooing or at annual time. (I had found that the most movement with the old carpet was from rear seat passengers getting in & out.) The center strip doesn't need anything to stay in place. 

http://www.amazon.com/VELCRO-Industrial-Strength-Wide-Black/dp/B00006RSP1

[gsxrpilot]

I think this is my next project...

[Raptor05121]

I also have Airtex. It comes with foam on the backside, but the J-bar pushed up against it. I may have to trim some foam from behind it so it fits properly.

[jetdriven]

13 hours ago, par said:

I am definitely going with Airtex carpet as I have already ordered it but like everyone mentioned, the glue method doesn't seem like its all that great. The previous carpet was in absolute shambles as well with the foam breaking off the back of the carpet. I figured much of this was due to the vast amounts of fuel that had been leaking into the cockpit before I purchased the plane but based on the comments so far that may not have been the entire issue.

 

Jetdriven,

I was thinking of going the button route but I assume I will need to keep the belly pans off to install the buttons into the floor. How long did it take you to do everything? Also, how did you punch holes in the carpet and ensure everything was in the proper spot so the carpet didn't bunch up later?

Two man job it's about 1.5 hours when the belly panels are already off like at annual. Maybe 4-5 hours to open it up do the work and close up. Drill from above but have your guy below verify where you are so u don't drill into the wiring under the pilot seat. Drill the holes. Lay the carpet where u want it.  Then use a pick to go up thru the hole from below, spearing a hole in the carpet. Alternately place white tape on the bottom of the carpet and mark thru the hole onto the carpet. 

Fit the female snaps. Then bolt male snaps into the floor. Snap the carpet in. 

I did two snaps at tear of each carpet piece. Four under front edge of each pilot seat (far enough back when seat is full back it's still under seat a little ), teo at front of center strip. And one hard action snap between each set of rudder pedals. Hard action snaps under cop pilot seat too. 

Edited December 31, 2015 by jetdriven

[PTK]

This sure does sound like major overkill doesn't guys?! Is it really that big of an issue to resort to drilling through the floor to hold down a couple little carpet pieces?

My carpet doesn't move. It lays nice and stays put. No glue, no velcro, nothing. What I did is select carpet that has a backing with a slight degree of rigidity to it, in contrast to the original, which had no rigidity at all. Then I cut the new carpet "strategically" fuller than the original leaving just enough room for the seat rollers to move on the rails and no more. This way it fits better and fuller all around with no room to move out of place. It also looks better fitting fuller all around than the original.

[jetdriven]

When people stand up to get out and when they get in, it pulls the passenger side carpet forward. Then it cocks and jams the seat in the tracks. You guys do what you want but snaps fix it. I got the idea from the carpet in a Navajo, 414, 421, and 1900D used to fly. They all snapped in like that too. 

[par]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

 

 

Two man job it's about 1.5 hours when the belly panels are already off like at annual. Maybe 4-5 hours to open it up do the work and close up. Drill from above but have your guy below verify where you are so u don't drill into the wiring under the pilot seat. Drill the holes. Lay the carpet where u want it.  Then use a pick to go up thru the hole from below, spearing a hole in the carpet. Alternately place white tape on the bottom of the carpet and mark thru the hole onto the carpet. 

Fit the female snaps. Then bolt male snaps into the floor. Snap the carpet in. 

I did two snaps at tear of each carpet piece. Four under front edge of each pilot seat (far enough back when seat is full back it's still under seat a little ), teo at front of center strip. And one hard action snap between each set of rudder pedals. Hard action snaps under cop pilot seat too. 

I like this idea the best I think. The plane is in annual at the moment and the belly pans are off so it makes sense to go this route. The previous carpet was glued in place and it was a poor method as the carpet bunched up and destroyed itself. It took me longer to clean up all the old glue and carpet than it will to install the snaps. I'll try to take some pictures while i'm at it. Thanks for the idea.

Edited December 31, 2015 by par

[M20F-1968]

I purchased some 3M Velcro on e-bay and amazon.com.  I got the part number from Aircraft Spruce so look there for the part number.  It is expensive but is designed for aircraft use. 

You need to purchase two rolls, the hook and loop sides come separately.  It seems to stick better than most Velcro.

John Breda

[jamesm]

I used SCS interior for my '67C carpets. there should not be interference with seats sliding back and forth. I  may have  done a non preferred method I put nut plates on  lower floor boards to keep the carpet from moving.  The carpet  doesn't move where as some  adhesive leave residue or break down. I did not  go with foam backing  and  glad I did over time the  foam starts break down and you get chunks of foam tracks that never seem to end.   I would recommenced  SCS very flexible and  I thought there price was responsible and they were fairly quick with my non standard request. who ever you decided to go with make sure meets the FAA material burn requirements.

 

 

https://www.scs-interiors.com/products/aerospace/mooney/mooney-m20.html

Hope this helps.

James

Edited January 1, 2016 by jamesm

[Bob_Belville]

4 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

I purchased some 3M Velcro on e-bay and amazon.com.  I got the part number from Aircraft Spruce so look there for the part number.  It is expensive but is designed for aircraft use. 

You need to purchase two rolls, the hook and loop sides come separately.  It seems to stick better than most Velcro.

John Breda

Here's a box of 15' of both hook and loop. Good stuff. 

http://www.amazon.com/VELCRO-Industrial-Strength-Wide-Black/dp/B00006RSP1

[par]

I think i'm going with some sort of fastener and staying away from any product that requires any sort of glue. I appreciate all the ideas though.

Par

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, par said:

I think i'm going with some sort of fastener and staying away from any product that requires any sort of glue. I appreciate all the ideas though.

Par

If your C is like my F, there are holes machined into the floorboard just in front of the rear bench. Go to the auto parts store and select a low profile auto upholstery trim fastener.  Position the carpet as you'd like and use an awl to make a small hole in the carpet that corresponds to the floorboard. Push fastener through carpet and into floorboard. 

With regard to insulation/sound deadening. I would not bother with the floor, the Airtex carpet is backed with foam and there's a fair amount of dead air between the floor board and the belly skin. I would pay attention to the sidewalls and the area around the wing root fairings and the fuel tank bulkhead that makes up each side of the cabin. These are the areas where there's little more than a thin piece of aluminum separating you from the elements...or 2 potentially super cooled containers of fuel traveling through subfreezing air at 3 miles per minute.

 

Edited January 1, 2016 by Shadrach

[MyNameIsNobody]

I used 3M spray on glue/sealant.  No issues several years later...Easy, NOT costly

[aaronk25]

The glue also isn't necessary a permanent deal either as aircraft paint stripper will remove glue when your ready to replace carpet, again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RLCarter]

My carpet was put in with snaps, when I replaced the carpet with new airtex (which has foam backing) I went back with 5/8" snaps (color matched to the carpet) to help hide the buttons. Most noise comes from the firewall area so I ordered an extra yard of carpet to go into the rudder pedal boxes in hopes of deadening some of the noise coming from the engine, besides it looks better than the original insulation. I also used the remainder of the extra carpet to cut a piece for the hat rack. The new carpet was not cut out for the fuel valve, the baggage area had to be cut to fit as well. I sent all the carpet that had been cut to be bound at a local carpet shop, $35.00 bucks well spent.

[Danb]

Left my plane at airex in there gallery of pix..'N5817T'  they did a great job.