First Mooney

[Pictreed]

I've been working on purchasing a 1965 20E for sometime now. If everything goes right I'll have it by the first of February. 

I made friends with a couple Mooney owners and flew my first Mooney Saturday. All I can say is wow. 

It too is a 1965 E but has all the mods (tips, windshield, wing fillets) and a 3 blade prop. I'll try to post a video which shows that I've never landed with a 3 blade prop.  Could be why my buddy kept saying, 'you better get some throttle back in, you better get some throttle back in'. I had just enough stick to keep it from bouncing but lesson learned. The first landing was fine but I just got too slow the second time.  

We had practiced slow flight and stalls so I was confident in it. 

When I first got in I was trying to figure out how to sit and rest my arm for the controls but I said just forget about it, and I figured it all out soon enough. 

I pulled a muscle putting the gear up...lol, but did not bob much. 

These things climb fast.  We worked on descending without back pressure from the prop pushing the engine...lots of good info on that flight. 

It is definitely different...in a good way.  I can't wait. 

The video isn't that great.  My very supportive wife took it as she was working on our hangar.

http://youtu.be/OKuBlpYFzLg

Tim

[carusoam]

Slow flight at altitude is a nice way of getting used to power settings that work and exercising the brain to continuously read airspeed and look out the window at the same time.

my best landings in four years came after a slow flight practice.  Maintaining altitude, heading, speed and stall horn on.

To be clear, I am only a PP.  I am still learning to fly.

there are some threads around here regarding how to develop proper speeds for your aircraft based on it's Vso.  1.3 Vso, 1.2 Vso etc...

how well is your stall horn working?

Best regards,

-a-

[Pictreed]

They stall horn worked well.  If you get into the instrument stuff you learn about stabilized approaches and you really improve your approaches and landings but this was a very gusty day and with all my excitement it was not as good as I'd hoped. 

[carusoam]

Finding info on gusty and X-wind experience...

flaps set for T/O and knowledge on short rudder vs others...

the 65 has a short rudder, but better throw than older planes.

do you have the most recent POH for your bird?  Not the owner's manual from 65...

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

Judging by how that wind sock was dancing, it looked like a fairly decent landing in gusty conditions. It did look like that you flared a little high and dropped it a bit. Hard to tell from that angle. Good luck on the purchase.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Pictreed]

I haven't gotten as far as the POH info and verification everything is up to date yet but I'll be posting a lot of newbie questions 'next year'. I'm sure the owner and transition training will provide much of the info I need too.

I was in ground effect and kept it from settling and when it did stop flying I pulled back on the yoke just in time at the end.  It was a save for sure.  I wish she had videoed the other landing.  I was quite happy with that one. 

I did not put all the flaps in on this landing. 

Anyway, enough on the landing, I'll get plenty of practice during transition training. I want to focus on the experience.  

I did get to use the did get to use the autopilot a bit.  That is a must have upgrade!

[steingar]

Took me awhile to get used to landing mine, and there were plenty of bounces on the way.  But you'll get used to it and the J-bar, which still gives me the occasional fits.

[Yetti]

Landings.   For the most part I have been doing power off 180s with no flaps.  Gear down on threshold, it will land just before the 1000 foot marks.  The home runway has a pretty good downhill slope.       So at another towered field I got behind a 182 on a 2 mile final.   I had a very hard time getting slowed down and just hanging out getting ready to land.   Then the bouncing started.  Then had to do a go around.  Sad but it happens.

[steingar]

6 hours ago, Yetti said:

Landings.   For the most part I have been doing power off 180s with no flaps.  Gear down on threshold, it will land just before the 1000 foot marks.  The home runway has a pretty good downhill slope.       So at another towered field I got behind a 182 on a 2 mile final.   I had a very hard time getting slowed down and just hanging out getting ready to land.   Then the bouncing started.  Then had to do a go around.  Sad but it happens.

Eeef, I was taught completely differently.  I was taught to have the gear and flaps out before you hit the pattern, and to keep some power in.  No power and the thing gets quite the sink at the speeds I'm flying.  Yeah, flying patterns with Cessnas can get entertaining.  I've just been swinging wide.

[Yetti]

We have gone through that everyone has a different routine and that is what is good for you.  My transition instructor flew F-18s so he probably is used to doing things quicker and tighter.    What he showed me is 15" in the pattern.  gear out on threshold.   GUMPS   Turn for final.  Flaps if I am high or shorter runway.  Check the gear about 4 times.  Mooneys are pretty draggy with the gear out.  

Back to home with the lunch crowd arriving en mass. Say 10 planes arriving on an uncontrolled field with 2 departing   Working it in with a couple of RVs hanging out on the runway after landing.  Had to do another go around.

[steingar]

I fly 90 on downwind, 80 on base, and try and be 70 over the numbers.  Of course do whatever is most comfortable, but I do fit in with other aircraft more or less.  Without gear or flaps I don't slow down much past gear speeds, and downwind goes by pretty fast at those speeds.  Just sounds harder to me than it needs to be.  

But I could easily be the oddball in all this.

[DXB]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

I fly 90 on downwind, 80 on base, and try and be 70 over the numbers.  Of course do whatever is most comfortable, but I do fit in with other aircraft more or less.  Without gear or flaps I don't slow down much past gear speeds, and downwind goes by pretty fast at those speeds.  Just sounds harder to me than it needs to be.  

But I could easily be the oddball in all this.

I'm similar, normally dropping the gear a bit before pattern entry, hold 90mph from abeam downwind through base get down to 80 over the fence on final, let it bleed down a bit further up to the numbers.  I'm a low time pilot, and dropping the gear makes it perform a lot more like my trainer in the pattern and certainly eased my transition into the plane right after my PPL- it also let me separate GUMPS from pattern flying mentally to keep workload down.  

 

Clearly there are others with more experience who manage speed and altitude very successfully and accurately over a much wider envelope in the pattern, gear up or down.  I flew with someone the other day who was at 160mph abeam on downwind and 500 ft too high before slowing, dropping gear, descending in a tight turn forward slip, and nailing the landing- no big deal for him and it was good to know the plane can do this readily.   I hope to get there someday.

[Yetti]

I too am low time.  We got the plane running in June.  Then with lots of travel for work and other things.

This was fun to review.  This was not a power off 180, just a sloppy pattern with a bit of adjustment at the end to get it on center line.  There was a 90 degree cross wind from the left.

 

https://youtu.be/1BCNh6rO2tE

[Andy95W]

3 hours ago, steingar said:

I fly 90 on downwind, 80 on base, and try and be 70 over the numbers.  Of course do whatever is most comfortable, but I do fit in with other aircraft more or less.  Without gear or flaps I don't slow down much past gear speeds, and downwind goes by pretty fast at those speeds.  Just sounds harder to me than it needs to be.  

But I could easily be the oddball in all this.

'Zactly what I do.

Does that mean we're doing it right or that we're both oddballs?

[Pictreed]

What about IFR?  Are you guys putting the gear out before the IAF or FAF?  I got in a bad habbit of putting the gear down way before I got to the inbound course but towards the end of training I worked it out to stay within the 3 minute mark of the inbound course.  And that was only 120kts.  Good grief, I may blow past the inbound course now.  LOL 

I'm sure I'll work out what's best for me during training. 

 

Tim

[carusoam]

Tim,

Look for the MAPA training.  It is Mooney specific and goes deep into best practices for IFR flight for your Mooney.  They print a handbook that is pretty good to have as well.

Best regards,

-a-

[Hector]

What about IFR?  Are you guys putting the gear out before the IAF or FAF?  I got in a bad habbit of putting the gear down way before I got to the inbound course but towards the end of training I worked it out to stay within the 3 minute mark of the inbound course.  And that was only 120kts.  Good grief, I may blow past the inbound course now.  LOL 

I'm sure I'll work out what's best for me during training. 

 

Tim

For non-precision approaches gear down at FAF. For precision approaches, gear down at glideslope intercept. It's what I do. Find out what combination of throttle/RPM gives you 120 level flight. I typically cruise at 2400 RPM and I don't change that during descent. I know that 16-17 inches, depending on weight, yields 120 level flight. I dial that in to slow down during the approach. At glideslope intercept the gear comes down and if properly trimmed she will settle on a 500 fpm descent at 120. I'll make minor adjustments as needed to maintain that and keep the needles centered.

[Yetti]

10 hours ago, steingar said:

I fly 90 on downwind, 80 on base, and try and be 70 over the numbers.  Of course do whatever is most comfortable, but I do fit in with other aircraft more or less.  Without gear or flaps I don't slow down much past gear speeds, and downwind goes by pretty fast at those speeds.  Just sounds harder to me than it needs to be.  

But I could easily be the oddball in all this.

Mph or knots?  I would probably get the does not play well with others in the pattern award.  probably because during the week there is rarely people in the pattern.  120 mph at the threshold...  If I am fast pitch up a bit to slow it down.  Get the gear out.   If you have not flown much past the threshold you can chop the throttle and do a u turn to glide it in. Usually I see 90 mph in the turn. I have a pretty good fear of getting too slow on the base and final turn to stall spin so that is why I like good airspeed. I rarely look at the speed after those two checks mostly do it by feel.

[1964-M20E]

Feel the force Yoda I mean Yetti

Steingar appears to be flying a pre 65 C model so most likely MPH

I use 100 downwind, 90 base 80MPH final and gear down abeam the numbers or at FAF

An old man and Mooney pilot told me when I was looking for a plane and test flying his don't fly it like a Cessna meaning keep you speed up until you need to slow down to land.

 

[Yetti]

During transition training on take off all was good keeping center line, fuel pump off, flaps up, engine in green.  The Instructor looks over at me and say "OK Cessna boy".   I sheepishly reached for the gear switch to pull in the drag. It was fun to fly with him as he could just feel the plane {and then of course tell you what you were doing wrong)  and I mean feel it.   Just a smidgen of ball outside the lines and "bit more right pedal"

[steingar]

I was speaking of mph, sorry.  Stall speed for mine dirty is 57mph, so I'm not terribly worried about stalling in the pattern.  I also keep the ball centered and don't use rudder to recover and overshoot.  That said, if you're really worried about a stall spin scenario in the pattern, invest in vortex generators.  You'll never stall your airplane, ever.

To be honest, once dirtied up my Mooney flies almost exactly like a trainer, probably why they make trainers the way they do.  Biggest difference is I have to be way more accurate with my speed or I float.  I like what I do mostly because every CFI I've ever had stressed a stable approach.  I can slam dunk an airplane with the best of them (well, maybe not with the best of them but I haven't balled anything up), I've done it before and I'll certainly do it again at need.  But I certainly don't want to to that every time.  Lots of distractions in the pattern, lots going on.  I want a nice, predictable, and slow task flow. I'll leave the zoom takeoffs and crazy landings to the RV crowd.  They seem to like that sort of thing.

[steingar]

5 minutes ago, Yetti said:

During transition training on take off all was good keeping center line, fuel pump off, flaps up, engine in green.  The Instructor looks over at me and say "OK Cessna boy".   I sheepishly reached for the gear switch to pull in the drag. It was fun to fly with him as he could just feel the plane {and then of course tell you what you were doing wrong)  and I mean feel it.   Just a smidgen of ball outside the lines and "bit more right pedal"

I bolluxed more things transitioning into the Mooney than I care to think about.  The one thing I never forgot was the gear.  The Johnson bar does that.

[gsxrpilot]

Assuming VFR, the last time I look at the ASI is generally to verify I'm slow enough to get the gear out. That usually happens on the downwind. After that, it's eyes outside.

When IFR, I drop the gear at glideslope intercept. And as Hector said, if I've done everything right up to that point, she settles into a nice 500ft/min descent down the glideslope.

[Mooneymite]

I'm amused by certain Mooney pilots who are absolute efficiency nuts who concentrate on squeezing the most miles & speed out of every gallon....until they get close to an airport...

B-52 pattern, dirtied up 50 miles out and an entry technique that defies logic.

Things that make you go "Hmmmmm".

 

[steingar]

42 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

I'm amused by certain Mooney pilots who are absolute efficiency nuts who concentrate on squeezing the most miles & speed out of every gallon....until they get close to an airport...

B-52 pattern, dirtied up 50 miles out and an entry technique that defies logic.

Things that make you go "Hmmmmm".

 

Two words.  Stable approach.