flatlandor Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 Hello everyone! Yes, this is my first post here, but not new to Mooney. I owned one for several years with a partner but had to sell it a few years back. Now jumping in again and getting one on my own finally. I know that at some point, and on some models, the panel was made bigger. I've seen and flown the panels on the new ones - the long bodies - but I understand that on some of the previous generations, the panels were shorter and easier to see over. I did some "googling" to try and find out what models have which panel but was not finding much. Anyone have any guidance here? I'm trying to figure out what plane I'm going to buy and would prefer the shorter panel, but also want to buy as late a model as possible. Leaning toward a 252. I understand the "Encore" is almost the same plane, but does it have the same smaller panel? I've been told the 252's do. Hopefully that is correct information. I'm sure I'll have more questions. I'm definitely a fan of this aircraft - loved my last one - even though it wasn't all mine. Quote
Openwheeler3 Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 I'm not the expert, but I think pre-J the panels were really small and easy to see over, J & K were bigger with to accommodate the 6 pack standard, and the M and later had the biggest panels. Encore came after the 252 and probably has the same size panel. Have not been in an encore, myself, though. Quote
Danb Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 Some of the earlier M models panels were hard to see over, mine is an'05 and have no difficulty seeing over the panel plus I'm only 5'8" Quote
Marauder Posted July 12, 2015 Report Posted July 12, 2015 Some of the earlier M models panels were hard to see over, mine is an'05 and have no difficulty seeing over the panel plus I'm only 5'8" Don't the newer planes also have articulating seats to help those that are not long in stature? Quote
carusoam Posted July 13, 2015 Report Posted July 13, 2015 Welcome aboard Flatlandor! This goes in the Goofy Question file... My C and my R panel are the same height. The top of the C is even with the cowling... The top of the R is even with the cowling... I could lower the panel, but it won't lower the cowling. Maybe the two cowlings are different. Maybe the pilots are different? To handle the pilot variety, they use seats that are adjustable in height. They raise the pilots eyes above the cowling, but not so the pilot's head bumps the ceiling. It's precision in the non-precise world, fully adjustable... This may even work for Giraffes... Anyone with a 4' long neck will need to try adjusting the seat angle as well as the height... If this is not convincing.... Consider sitting in several different Mooneys in one day. There is a group of people in Texas that helps people with questions like these... http://allamericanaircraft.com/Default.htm There are other groups as well. Such as Lasar... Kansas isn't that far from TX, is it? How is that for logic? How about my casual sense of humor? Now, if the question is really covering for a digital panel vs steam gauge panel using panel height as determining factor.... I have some opinions there as well... My retirement plane is going to be an all digital M20E...lots of color screens. My current plane is all about speed in the non-O2 levels, no color screens yet... Best regards, -a- Quote
Bob_Belville Posted July 13, 2015 Report Posted July 13, 2015 Now, if the question is really covering for a digital panel vs steam gauge panel using panel height as determining factor.... I have some opinions there as well... My retirement plane is going to be an all digital M20E...lots of color screens. My current plane is all about speed in the non-O2 levels, no color screens yet... Best regards, -a- Want to swap? 1 Quote
carusoam Posted July 13, 2015 Report Posted July 13, 2015 Panels, yes... Speed, not yet... I am retired....hmmm? Best regards, -a- Quote
Bob_Belville Posted July 13, 2015 Report Posted July 13, 2015 I am retired and I agree with your logic: A nice M20E with a modern panel. Quote
Marauder Posted July 13, 2015 Report Posted July 13, 2015 Panels, yes... Speed, not yet... I am retired....hmmm? Best regards, -a- I am retired and I agree with your logic: A nice M20E with a modern panel. Fight! Fight! Fight! Just like the old school yard days! Speaking of retired... My father-in-law was a workaholic. He would work from 7 in the morning to 8 at night. One day his boss called and told him he was going to be part of a new program the company was running - RAPE, acronym for Retire Aged Personnel Early. So there he is... retired many years before he wanted to. A few weeks later, he is sitting out on his front porch. His 4 year old granddaughter is playing with a neighborhood kid. The neighborhood kid looks over and ask who this man was. Obviously she had never seen him before since he worked endlessly. The granddaughter looked over to her grandfather and said, "Oh, that's my Grandfather. He's retarded now" (True story) Glad to say I know a couple of "retarded" people... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 1 Quote
donkaye Posted July 13, 2015 Report Posted July 13, 2015 The Encore has a lower panel. My Bravo has the taller panel, but I have found no trouble seeing over it either enroute or in landing. You can fit more stuff in the taller panels. Quote
Marauder Posted July 13, 2015 Report Posted July 13, 2015 Aw B26, don't be jealous. Oh, I'm jealous alright. Here it is Sunday night and I am having those dreaded Monday feelings already started. 1 Quote
jbs007 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Posted July 13, 2015 The small panels are only on pre-J Mooneys, but many of these have ben upgraded to the J-style (or 201-style) panels. Mine is a M20E that has the panel upgrade to the J-style and I was playing with the idea of going back to the smaller panel because I would rather a smaller clean panel myself, but I don't know how practical that will be now. If you do go for the smaller panel, there are many that have modernized small panels and I'd go for that; not the original "shotgun" layout. That way you keep the low profile but have the normal 6-pack instrument layout. I haven't flown many Mooney's so I can't compare, but I'm not a tall guy and I do wish my panel was smaller even if all I'm seeing is a little more cowl. If you're looking for a J model or later I think you have no choice; it's going to be the bigger panel. Bob that is an awesome panel! is it technically a J-style or is it a straight up custom? The J-style I have has the radio stack farther right and I would like to move it how yours is. How much higher could your radio stack be there? Could you have fit another 1.5"? Thanks Quote
Bob_Belville Posted July 13, 2015 Report Posted July 13, 2015 Bob that is an awesome panel! is it technically a J-style or is it a straight up custom? The J-style I have has the radio stack farther right and I would like to move it how yours is. How much higher could your radio stack be there? Could you have fit another 1.5"? Thanks It probably would be considered a custom. In 1997 a previous owner had upgraded with an Instrument panel by SW Texas Aviation, STC SA7828SW. see pics. In 2012 my new stuff included fresh aluminum but the size probably matches the old SWTA. The Audio Panel and the GTN750 might be set a little higher. There are structural tubes, part of our famous cage, forming a "V" in that area. It would depend upon the depth of the top radio. Perhaps you can make something out of the pics of the work in process. Quote
Marauder Posted July 13, 2015 Report Posted July 13, 2015 The small panels are only on pre-J Mooneys, but many of these have ben upgraded to the J-style (or 201-style) panels. Mine is a M20E that has the panel upgrade to the J-style and I was playing with the idea of going back to the smaller panel because I would rather a smaller clean panel myself, but I don't know how practical that will be now. If you do go for the smaller panel, there are many that have modernized small panels and I'd go for that; not the original "shotgun" layout. That way you keep the low profile but have the normal 6-pack instrument layout. I haven't flown many Mooney's so I can't compare, but I'm not a tall guy and I do wish my panel was smaller even if all I'm seeing is a little more cowl. If you're looking for a J model or later I think you have no choice; it's going to be the bigger panel. Bob that is an awesome panel! is it technically a J-style or is it a straight up custom? The J-style I have has the radio stack farther right and I would like to move it how yours is. How much higher could your radio stack be there? Could you have fit another 1.5"? Thanks Some of the later pre-J models did have a standard "201" style panel. My 1975 F does. I think the 74 and prior models may have the shorter panels. And as you pointed out, there have been a number retrofitted with the standard 6 pack sized panel. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote
Bob_Belville Posted July 13, 2015 Report Posted July 13, 2015 Here's an interesting pic. This was takent in the avionics shop. (I did not like the 696 on the yoke and it did not stay there long.) You'll see that they had fabricated a black metal spacer on top of the panel. They did that to get the sun screen to sit level. I flew it like that a while but never made a decent landing, it was like flying the Spirit of St. Louis. I removed the spacer, it was over 1" high, and I took a heat gun to the plastic sun screen and got it back where it belonged. I also fly with a seat cushion. (I used to be 5'9", @ 72 I'm probably closer to 5'7"!) Quote
carusoam Posted July 13, 2015 Report Posted July 13, 2015 Bob has posted the important photo. Notice where the structural tubes split from the center tube in the windshield... Keep them in mind while doing your lay-out in 3D. Not much can fit at the top of the radio stack. The GTN750 makes a nice fit there. Thin at the top of the radio... Best regards, -a- Quote
Bob_Belville Posted July 13, 2015 Report Posted July 13, 2015 Bob has posted the important photo. Notice where the structural tubes split from the center tube in the windshield... Keep them in mind while doing your lay-out in 3D. Not much can fit at the top of the radio stack. The GTN750 makes a nice fit there. Thin at the top of the radio... Best regards, -a- I would be surprised if the cage, and the tubes behind the panel, in my '66E is different from any other model, at least through the M20K. But I do not know that for a fact. Quote
carusoam Posted July 13, 2015 Report Posted July 13, 2015 New v. Old... The material of the vertical tube is different. Non magnetic. The tube dia of the vertical tube appears to be slightly larger. My Henderson GPS mount fits too snugly. Best regards, -a- Quote
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