It's time for the GPS

[Vance Harral]

We installed a 650 about three years ago in our '76F (essentially the same panel layout as Bob's '77J, including the throttle quadrant), and we've been happy with it vs. spending the extra money to upgrade to the 750.  Our #2 is a KX-155 as well.  We've had no problems with it knocking out GPS reception, though I know that's been an issue in some installations.

 

Bob, be aware that if you choose the 650, you won't be able to put it very high in your #1 nav stack.  The steel tubing that comes down the center of the windshield continues below the glare shield, and prevents installing equipment of any significant depth up high.  We wanted the 650 up high, immediately below our audio panel.  But we wound up having to put in a spacer, then put the transponder below that, and push the #1 and #2 radios all the way down to the bottom of the stack.  I was a little worried about the engine controls blocking the buttons on the KX-155 when everything is full forward, but that hasn't been a problem either.  Here's a picture showing what it looks like:

 

 

I'm used to the layout now, but having the transponder up top wasn't my first choice.  The avionics shop said about the only way around that in an older Mooney is to go with the 750, which has an L-shaped profile with only the skinny display up top.

 

The other Bob's comments about keypad entry, display of frequencies, etc. are spot on.  These are mostly non-issues for us.  I do occasionally wish we had the "full keyboard" for waypoint entry.  I don't use the keypad for entry very much anyway, as I find it faster to use the nearest button and/or use graphical editing via touchscreen on the map.  But even when using "nearest", it would be nice to see more choices on the page without having to scroll.  About the only 750 feature I'm snarky about is approach plates.  Sure, you can display them on the 750, but that's another high-dollar annual subscription, and even the 750's display is fairly small and low-res compared to any flavor of iPad.

 

Three years into it, my personal opinion is that the 750 has about one AMU's worth of nicer features vs. the 650, but the actual price difference is still considerably greater that that.  Your money to spend, of course, but I'm glad we saved our pennies for other toys.

[Jim Peace]

One reason is if you go GDL88 route, it needs its own antenna, so with transponder and DME, that's 3 blade antennas on the bottom, probably 1 too many for my taste

For me its just too one sided to just have GPS nav.  I say keep the DME and GPS....I would think having a "plan B" in an airplane is always a good idea

[ArtVandelay]

For me its just too one sided to just have GPS nav. I say keep the DME and GPS....I would think having a "plan B" in an airplane is always a good idea

Agreed, My plan B is ILS,VOR+iPad,GPS

[Marauder]

Bob - here is what my F looked like before and after. Take your time and plan it out.

[MooneyBob]

Bob - here is what my F looked like before and after. Take your time and plan it out.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1423351344.783309.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1423351443.588497.jpg

Yes, your panel was very similar to my current panel.

I think I will do that in two steps. GPS and CGR30 now and then complete new panel with Aspens or Garmin 500 and ADS-B couple years later. Waiting for some quotes.

Thanks.

[Bob - S50]

Ok.  As long as we are sharing panels, here is our before and after:

 

 

Before

 

Before

 

 

After.

 

Note the ADF, Radar Altimeter, KX170B, old EGT/OAT gauge, KMA, and Telephony? are gone.

Installed are a used UPS audio panel/intercom, GTN650, and EDM730.

Transponder moved.  The thing in the upper right that took the place of the old EGT/OAT is a digital fuel gauge.

Note the dual USB adapter in the cigarette lighter adapter and the small 'glove box'.

The KI208 got replaced with one that has a glideslope.

The two white areas near the top of the right side are checklists.

 

Bob

[PTK]

Bob, I would remove audio panel, adf, one kx155, loran, transponder, dme and cleanup the right stack.

I would install GTN750, remote tx (GTX33), remote audio panel (GMA35), GDL88 with flightstream 210. I would keep one 155 and its head with gs as nav2.

This will give you a clean workhorse center stack and a clean right stack.

As far as the AI and HSI my opinion would be to keep them for now and wait. Rumor is Garmin will roll out a nice pfd to complement the 750.

Edit: I forgot to mention also you can plan ahead and leave space under the 750 for a 650 should you decide to add that later. This way the 750 rack doesn't have to come out again. That's how I planned mine. Keep in mind these racks are riveted in our Mooneys!

[Bob_Belville]

Bob, I would remove audio panel, adf, one kx155, loran, transponder, dme and cleanup the right stack.

I would install GTN750, remote tx (GTX33), remote audio panel (GMA35) and GDL88 if you wish. I would keep one 155 and its head with gs as nav2.

This will give you a clean workhorse center stack and a clean right stack.

image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

PTK's options of remote xponder and audio panel are fine if panel space is a premium but both are higher priced than the Garmin GMA 340 and GTX 327. I found plenty of room and it is a little more convenient to have them separate units. Nancy doesn't mess with much but she does discern the squawk code out of the clearance jargon and enters it. BTW, I find I virtually never use the xmit function of the kx 155. the 750's comm entry is so smooth that the #2 comm is tuned to ATIS/AWOS/ASOS... monitor only.

[ArtVandelay]

You guys are ignoring his $20K limit

[PTK]

You guys are ignoring his $20K limit

That limit is arbitrary!

Isn't that right Bob?!

[Marauder]

You guys are ignoring his $20K limit

Just like I ignored mine.

[Bob_Belville]

You guys are ignoring his $20K limit

I told him to keep one of his kx 155 and to sell his 2nd kx155/adf/dme. The loran is not worth much. I think the net cost with the GTN750 should be close to his budget.

 

Of course I would like him to add a GLD88 for traffic, weather and ADS-B, an Aspen as his gpss solution and to get an engine analyzer like my EDM 930. Some might say I just want to add to the MS Masochists. Marauder being chairman.    

[ArtVandelay]

All I can say is after flying with GDL88, I now consider it a necessity, I'm amazed by all the traffic around that I can't see even though I know where it is.

[Bob_Belville]

All I can say is after flying with GDL88, I now consider it a necessity, I'm amazed by all the traffic around that I can't see even though I know where it is.

You think?

[TWinter]

Isn't it customary to add a $6-8K budget buffer when we figure on upgrades. When I plan for upgrades it always ends up being budget + $$$ ( the dreaded buffer zone).

 

The justification logic for me is, " While you have it pulled apart lets just go ahead and do ?"..I've used that justification way to many times.  His 20K plus another 8K will be right on target for some suggested upgrades.

[MooneyBob]

Yes. $ 20k is not a firm limit. I had to start somewhere and together with intended new interior later and other things it will add up quickly to the point where my financial officer will ask why I keep saying that the Gucci bag is stupid expensive waste.

[MooneyBob]

Thank you guys for all your inputs. I will do more homework, get the quotes and go from there. Hopefully I will soon proudly post some after pics and show it to some of you at our next fly in.

[Guest]

Looks like you guys are in a contest of "mine is bigger than yours"

Clarence

[PTK]

Bob, I edited my previous post. I neglected to mention an important point. Should you go that route, you can plan ahead and leave space under the 750 for a 650 should you decide to add that later. This way the 750 rack doesn't have to come out again. That's how I planned mine. Keep in mind these racks are riveted in our Mooneys!

[schule]

Clarence,

Those valve covers and exhaust are so shinny I couldn't really see those last few inches. What were you saying about bigger?

[Guest]

Eight of anything has to be better than four or six!

Clarence

[1964-M20E]

You can look at the Avidyne 540 they were running a special wit their APX340 XPONDER. Look the features each and make them work for your dollars.

[rbp]

you're going to hate me for saying this, but get rid of everything. you should be able to replace the nav/com, loran, ADF, DME, audio, and transponder, and replace them with an integrated unit of your choice.