Update for Mooney WAAS, ADS-B Upgrades for Stec equipped planes

[Jeff_S]

He wants to have it for a week just so he doesn't rush it, plus he's getting some annuals in too. Fine with me...due to ramp resurfacing that is stretching out way longer than planned, my poor baby has been parked out at the end of a runway since early December. I'm happy for any reason that puts it back in a hangar!

[Txbyker]

On 2/16/2017 at 9:13 PM, Jeff_S said:

He wants to have it for a week just so he doesn't rush it, plus he's getting some annuals in too. Fine with me...due to ramp resurfacing that is stretching out way longer than planned, my poor baby has been parked out at the end of a runway since early December. I'm happy for any reason that puts it back in a hangar!

Hey Jeff, just wondering if your project is completed?

Russ

[Godfather]

I'm glad Mooney came through for the waas upgrade. At ~20k it is a bargain IMO...I honestly thought it would be at least double that.  

[Jeff_S]

The antenna is on and the h/w components are in, but now they are runnng into typical issues with software running in older systems. Garmin and Mooney seem to be pointing fingers at each other...I'm in the software biz so that's par for the course. I'm sure it will all get worked out, hopefully this week.

[Robert C.]

Fingers crossed for you!

[Txbyker]

17 hours ago, Jeff_S said:

The antenna is on and the h/w components are in, but now they are runnng into typical issues with software running in older systems. Garmin and Mooney seem to be pointing fingers at each other...I'm in the software biz so that's par for the course. I'm sure it will all get worked out, hopefully this week.

Jeff sent you a PM.  On mine (first one) the software script was looking for the wrong GIA's.  They solved it by putting the old GIA's in place, running the script to update to a point along the upgrade, then swapping the old GIA's with the new GIA-W's.  Once that was done it allowed the software to load completely.  My software has since been reloaded due to a PFD swap so I know it stuck.  Garmin and Mooney didn't know what was up but the shop figured it out.  Don't know if that is the same for yours however.

Russ

[Jeff_S]

Indeed, swapping out the new GIAs for the old ones allowed the new boot block software to load, then put the new GIAs back in to load the -34 update. That seems to be the step that Mooney now even acknowledges. They may need to update the SB text. Mooney also need to acknowledge in the text that they don't ship the kit with the SD cards for both the boot block and -34 software...it has to be downloaded from the Mooney support website.

But progress was made today and they're hoping tomorrow they can finish up with the configuration settings. Still TBD is whether my existing SVT unlock card will work or whether I'll need a replacement and how much Garmin will charge for that. Russ, did your SVT card work right away? I guess the question is whether or not the load of the -34 software changes the core system ID that the unlock card is geared for.

[Txbyker]

Just now, Jeff_S said:

Indeed, swapping out the new GIAs for the old ones allowed the new boot block software to load, then put the new GIAs back in to load the -34 update. That seems to be the step that Mooney now even acknowledges. They may need to update the SB text. Mooney also need to acknowledge in the text that they don't ship the kit with the SD cards for both the boot block and -34 software...it has to be downloaded from the Mooney support website.

But progress was made today and they're hoping tomorrow they can finish up with the configuration settings. Still TBD is whether my existing SVT unlock card will work or whether I'll need a replacement and how much Garmin will charge for that. Russ, did your SVT card work right away? I guess the question is whether or not the load of the -34 software changes the core system ID that the unlock card is geared for.

Yes, your SVT card should load fine.  See if they will give you a copy of the -34 on an SD.  I got one for the road, ha.

Russ

[Jeff_S]

Okay, everything came together and the test flight was a success.  I got WAAS GPS coverage and flew an LPV approach with glide slope on the G1000, although true to Mooney's word in the SB, the S-TEC didn't capture the glide slope.  I was secretly hoping it would, but with SynVis flight path marker and highway in the sky boxes, that isn't that big a deal. I'll see how much that costs once Mooney determines how the S-TEC box needs to be updated. I did fly an ILS just to make sure that still worked, and the A/P flew the glide slope just fine.

I actually need to do a database update, and as part of the upgrade I got two new PFD/MFD SD cards, so I assume I just update those like normal. I'm not clear as to whether or not I got the automatic data synchronization feature, unless that's just always on. Russ, any ideas on that? Also, I did get a new Cockpit Reference Guide but I'm wondering what version of the new full manual I should download from the Garmin website. That may cover more details...would appreciate any insight on that.

Overall, my shop (Cole Aviation in Dalton GA) did use this as a learning experience, but they cut me some slack on the number of hours based on what it should reasonably have taken, and now they have the experience. So I would pass on my recommendation to any other similarly equipped Bravo, Ovation or Acclaim in the area, that if you're looking to do your WAAS upgrade, Joey Cole will do a good job for you. (Well, to be precise, one of his A/Ps, William, will do a good job...Joey remains a bit techno-illiterate!)

[buddy]

Jeff, I had my WAAS upgrade done last year and your S-TEC 55X should couple to the glide slope when flying an LPV approach. I know Mooney said it wouldn't but it does couple and does a nice job of flying a GPS approach to minimums.

Buddy

[gsengle]

Is it possible it didn't couple due to out of date database?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Txbyker]

Jeff, yes you have crosstalk now from the mfd sd card.  You can see status of the database cross fill on the aux database page. You have geo approach plates.  Data dumps on top mfd sd card.  Like Buddy referenced, coupled WAAS at FAF.  Activate approach, have in nav and apr and it will fly the glide slope at intercept (although not approved).  

Russ

[buddy]

I don't think an out of date database has anything to do with it since the G1000 shows the glide slope when flying a LPV approach. The software in the G1000 may need to be reconfigured to the 55X.

[Jeff_S]

I'll have to go back and try an LPV approach from a standard T configuration. I admit the one I tested today sort of dumped me right from the feeder line in a constant descent to the FAF. I did have it in APR mode but perhaps it I st didn't have enough time to capture the glideslope. More things to try.

 

[Jeff_S]

Success! I tried a standard T- shaped RNAV approach where I was able to establish a level attitude prior to FAF and the S-TEC captured the glideslope perfectly. Then I went to an old fashioned GPS overlay approach that had a hold in lieu of procedure turn at the IAF and then a constant descent from the inbound point to the FAF. Having the A/P in altitude select mode and APR captured the glideslope again and flew it down the line. So nice!

I noticed that the SVT flight path boxes didn't actually show the glideslope on the LPV approach like they do on an ILS...I'll have to research that a bit. Also, it has always amazed me that lateral guidance on the A/P actually gets worse in APR mode compared to GPSS, but my old GNS480 in the J did the same thing so I guess that's just normal. And I admit I could be applying gentle rudder to help out on final approach...those IFR lessons probably apply whether it's me or "George" flying the plane.

Money well spent, without a doubt.

[Robert C.]

Awesome, congratulations  and thanks for keeping us updated.

[carusoam]

Great update, Jeff!

Best regards,

-a-

[Filippo]

Great tread,

long to read but very good info.

Can I ask an update in pricing for however already did it?

- option 2 waas update with ads-b compliance total spent and which avionic shop

- only 345R installation with dedicated waas antenna, without garmin 1000 waas upgrade 

thanks

filippo

[Filippo]

Hopefully someone who did the upgrade before me will be able to answer to those few questions.

I did complete the installation and it was kind of a nightmare because the previous owner didn't have the garmin unlock card so after the WAAS upgrade i was not able to use Jeppesen chart anymore.

Anyway i bought the unlock card and now i will be able to get Jeppesen chart back .  Is the syn vis optional and requires an additional unlock card, if so how much will cost?

on my Jeppesen pilot pak they include the 4.9 terrain package which offers way more details, but my update GDU is 14.02 so not compatible with it.... any update? is there a 15.xx version?

Last but not least I tried a couple approach, but G1000 and Stec went crazy and dropped me. if you are on an airway and they clear you to a direct point in the approach, when do you activate the approach and in which autopilot modes?

thanks again

Filippo

 

[Jeff_S]

SVT does require a separate unlock card, I think it's about $10K but my plane was already unlocked so I'm not positive about that.

As to the MFD version, Mooney hasn't certified the PRE-Ultra planes for the 15x s/w version and it's not clear what their intentions are there. Presumably they are looking at it since that will be required to show the ADS-B NEXRAD images for anybody with the GTX-345, but it's not a given. I actually don't know what version is in the Ultra but since that's the Nxi version of the G1000 I assume it's pretty recent.

The A/P coupling with the S-TEC doesn't work any different than it usd to. Leave it in GPSS mode until you are on final and can see the magenta glide slope diamond appear on the HSI, then hit the APR key. That should allow the A/P to capture the LPV glide slope and take you on down.

[Filippo]

3 hours ago, Jeff_S said:

SVT does require a separate unlock card, I think it's about $10K but my plane was already unlocked so I'm not positive about that.

As to the MFD version, Mooney hasn't certified the PRE-Ultra planes for the 15x s/w version and it's not clear what their intentions are there. Presumably they are looking at it since that will be required to show the ADS-B NEXRAD images for anybody with the GTX-345, but it's not a given. I actually don't know what version is in the Ultra but since that's the Nxi version of the G1000 I assume it's pretty recent.

The A/P coupling with the S-TEC doesn't work any different than it usd to. Leave it in GPSS mode until you are on final and can see the magenta glide slope diamond appear on the HSI, then hit the APR key. That should allow the A/P to capture the LPV glide slope and take you on down.

It's interesting, because with 14.02 software I do have nexrad weather on my G1000, that is actually not an issue. Even my airplane was coming with all unlock features, but the cards where not in my package when I bought the airplane, so I 'm kind of screwed.

i was able to get a replacement card for the jeppesen chart, but for SVT will be a fight, nothing was on my log books regarding the unlock of all these feature, so it's difficult to prove it was done.

mooney went belly up and with new ownership , all records have not been passed along.

for jeppesen was easy to proof with previous owner subscription invoices , but for SVT, except from previous owner saying it was there I have no proof .

updating the software to Waas, cancelled all previously unlocked features. I called also previous avionics shop which worked on my airplane, but after 7 years there is not a requirement to keep the files and my unlock happened in 2008.... so I'm fuc..ed

 

[Jeff_S]

Well, I question whether you have ADS-B NEXRAD...you would definitely have Sirius/XM NEXRAD because that came with your plane. It isn't clear from your posts whether you have also done the GTX-345 upgrade for ADS-B.  If you have done this, and you are getting ADS-B NEXRAD, then you are living in a magical zone and people will want to know how that works.

Regarding Mooney's new ownership, your comment about records not getting passed is non-sensical.  Mooney never actually went "belly-up" this time around, they just scaled back to a skeleton operation. But all the records have been intact and passed to the new ownership.

Finally, doing the SVT unlock is a Garmin thing, not Mooney, so you would have to contact the prior owner (or whoever did the SVT unlock) to see if they have any records that you can use to validate that the system was upgraded.  I would think that Garmin would have this record based on the N-number, but that's speculation on my part. Still, worth a call to Garmin support to see if that helps.

[Txbyker]

On 8/8/2017 at 7:16 PM, Filippo said:

Last but not least I tried a couple approach, but G1000 and Stec went crazy and dropped me. if you are on an airway and they clear you to a direct point in the approach, when do you activate the approach and in which autopilot modes?

thanks again

Filippo

 

"Dropped you?"  On mine, After WAAS upgrade, when it coupled on a test run it pitched down to full stops on the trim servo then popped a fuse.  I had a couple of runaway trim situations, up and down. Both I and DanB had our servos rebuilt.  I also had my CPU unit overhauled by STEC.  My unofficially hunch is that the WAAS upgrade relies upon narrow power curves on the pitch and trim servos of the STEC and all need to be within spec.  I had one servo over voltage and one under voltage.

Russ

[Danb]

The SVT upgrade should be in your log book, the upgrade cost me about $11,000 at a Garmin dealer. It was there first one so I think the install cost was higher than expected. The 10-11,000 cost was well worth it. 

[Filippo]

On 8/12/2017 at 3:28 PM, Txbyker said:

"Dropped you?"  On mine, After WAAS upgrade, when it coupled on a test run it pitched down to full stops on the trim servo then popped a fuse.  I had a couple of runaway trim situations, up and down. Both I and DanB had our servos rebuilt.  I also had my CPU unit overhauled by STEC.  My unofficially hunch is that the WAAS upgrade relies upon narrow power curves on the pitch and trim servos of the STEC and all need to be within spec.  I had one servo over voltage and one under voltage.

Russ

Hi Russ,

actually for the pitch down problem there was an SB to apply after the WAAS upgrade M20-291A. Pretty much the 2 cables going to pitch servo needed to be inverted. If not the super nice dive was taking place....

filippo