Cross country to California

[kevinw]

I'm thinking of making a cross country trip with my wife from west central Iowa to Southern California in May of 2015. Here's the deal; I'm a 500 hour pilot with an IR flying an 82 J. I'm planning a SW leg to an airport in the Albuquerque area for the first leg. Next head west to my final destination of Carlsbad, CA (CRQ). Might have to break it up into three legs. Flying in the flat Midwest I rarely use airways as we simply fly direct everywhere. I have zero mountain flying experience so I'm trying to figure out away across the lower mountains in NM, AZ and CA that is safe with my limited NA aircraft. Ive been messing around with the maps in Foreflight and the lowest MEAs are in 9k range and that makes me a little nervous. I've read some posts from some of you guys that have experience flying the area of the second leg route and would appreciate any advice. Thanks -Kevin

[larryb]

Hi Kevin:

 

     I fly in California in my 84J, including the Sierra's and Lake Tahoe. I fly frequently at 13K or 14K, and have been as high as 17.5K. It takes a little time to climb that high, but the plane can do it easily. Do you have O2? If not, you will want it, and a few tanks for the trip. Filling O2 away from home is not always that easy.

 

Larry

[N201MKTurbo]

Once you get to Albuquerque you have it made. All the mountains the rest of the way you can fly around. ABQ is a good choice for your first crossing of the divide. It is easy there unless the wind is blowing, then it can get really rough.

There is nothing between ABQ and San Diego that is much of a challenge. There is usually a marine layer between JLI and CRQ so your instrument rating will come in handy.

Enjoy the trip!

[Danb]

Kev. By taking the southern route you won't have to fly to high for any long periods...a couple portable O2 bottles may help....from Abq to the coast are some of the most beautiful sights you'll ever see..good luck fly safe...

[stevesm20b]

I fly twice a year from Rochester NY to Southern California in my "B" model. I fly the airways. Westbound I fly 10,500, eastbound 9,500. Sometimes I have to climb to 12,000 when I get into NM to get into smoother air. You should have no problem in your J. If you would like more information on my route and or fuel stops let me know. 

[ShermAv8tor]

I fly twice a year from Rochester NY to Southern California in my "B" model. I fly the airways. Westbound I fly 10,500, eastbound 9,500. Sometimes I have to climb to 12,000 when I get into NM to get into smoother air. You should have no problem in your J. If you would like more information on my route and or fuel stops let me know. 

What is your average airspeed both east and west and how many hours does it take you to do the trip…..simply out of curiousity 

[kevinw]

Hi Kevin:

I fly in California in my 84J, including the Sierra's and Lake Tahoe. I fly frequently at 13K or 14K, and have been as high as 17.5K. It takes a little time to climb that high, but the plane can do it easily. Do you have O2? If not, you will want it, and a few tanks for the trip. Filling O2 away from home is not always that easy.

Larry

i do have a tank and cannulas that came with the airplane when I bought it two years ago. I've had it up to 11K and once I get above 9 it sure seems like a workout. I'd like to do this without O2 if possible. 12K or lower. Thanks for the help. Good to know a J can get that high.

[Hank]

In 2008, I flew my C from WV to Yellowstone and back, with extra stops since I traveled with friends in a Skyhawk.

Even so, I averaged 127 knots westbound, and 151 eastbound. But the legs were shorter than I would have flown by myself, except the last leg from Rapid City to Cody.

But we were VFR, sightseeing and enjoying the stops. We had one weather delay each direction, and may have avoided the blackness over Springfield, IL, even if I had the Instrument rating then (it was the remnants of a Gulf Coast hurricane blowing through).

[kevinw]

Once you get to Albuquerque you have it made. All the mountains the rest of the way you can fly around. ABQ is a good choice for your first crossing of the divide. It is easy there unless the wind is blowing, then it can get really rough.

There is nothing between ABQ and San Diego that is much of a challenge. There is usually a marine layer between JLI and CRQ so your instrument rating will come in handy.

Enjoy the trip!

Do you stick to the airways if it's VFR or just get high enough to clear everything?

[kevinw]

I fly twice a year from Rochester NY to Southern California in my "B" model. I fly the airways. Westbound I fly 10,500, eastbound 9,500. Sometimes I have to climb to 12,000 when I get into NM to get into smoother air. You should have no problem in your J. If you would like more information on my route and or fuel stops let me know.

I would like to know your route. Please let me know. Thanks!

[larryb]

Do you stick to the airways if it's VFR or just get high enough to clear everything?

 

For my trips I do not pay much attention to airways. I plan for terrain clearance, terrain friendliness, winds, etc, but not airways.

[DonMuncy]

If terrain is a factor at all, I would stick to airways. For possible mountain waves, icing, power emergencies, and having to look for unplanned landings, it is a little safer.

[carusoam]

The nice thing about victor airways, some of them have their VORs on airports...

Could have changed in the last few years since I used them last...?

For the first trip... Plan all the extra Plan Bs into the trip as possible.

There is no extra kudos for comings up short.

Best regards,

-a-

[kevinw]

If terrain is a factor at all, I would stick to airways. For possible mountain waves, icing, power emergencies, and having to look for unplanned landings, it is a little safer.

The nice thing about victor airways, some of them have their VORs on airports...

Could have changed in the last few years since I used them last...?

For the first trip... Plan all the extra Plan Bs into the trip as possible.

There is no extra kudos for comings up short.

Best regards,

-a-

Thanks guys. Sounds like good advice. When it gets closer I might look for a little more advice. I appreciate the help.

[AlanA]

Kevin,

 

I fly over the mountains in the SW almost every week.  By going the southern route you will get much less weather. 

 

Don't worry about going high.  I've had my J up to 17,500 on a couple of occasions,.  Watch your oil temps and expect to ascend slowly - especially if you have passengers.   But normally flying 12,500 or 13,500 will get you over just about everything safely.    At those altitudes no matter the season (but always in the winter) there is a potential for icing if you are in the clouds.  There might be a few peaks you jump up a little higher or go around.  Generally speaking you get better ground speeds if you fly westward in the mornings and eastwards in the afternoons.

 

Almost all of the mountiains ranges run North to South and are not very wide.  There are big wide valleys inbetween.  If you were to have troubles you would just land in the valley on whatever side of the peak you are on. 

 

I try not to fly at night much over some of these areas because airports are few and far apart,but on the plus side there are many flat spots you could put down safely if you need to.

 

Don't run low on gas - there are not many options for earlier stops.

 

The hardest part will be the mountains by Alberquerque because that mountain range is tall AND wide.  After that it gets easier.

 

There are some big MOA's  and Restricted areas.  Often, especially on Sundays, they are not "hot" you can get clearance through them.

 

If the weather is good - which it usually is in that area- you may find it one of your easiest and prettiest flights ever.

 

Good luck and have fun!

[helitim]

Kevin,

One additional piece of advice. Depending on the temperature when you fly, consider completing your legs before lunch. Flying across the NM, AZ area, I got the crap beat out of me trying to fly after lunch. Thermals were rough. After almost two hours of getting bounced around pretty bad, I made an unscheduled landing in St John, AZ. Left the next morning at sunrise, one of the most beautiful flights I've ever made.

Tim

[kevinw]

Kevin,

I fly over the mountains in the SW almost every week. By going the southern route you will get much less weather.

Don't worry about going high. I've had my J up to 17,500 on a couple of occasions,. Watch your oil temps and expect to ascend slowly - especially if you have passengers. But normally flying 12,500 or 13,500 will get you over just about everything safely. At those altitudes no matter the season (but always in the winter) there is a potential for icing if you are in the clouds. There might be a few peaks you jump up a little higher or go around. Generally speaking you get better ground speeds if you fly westward in the mornings and eastwards in the afternoons.

Almost all of the mountiains ranges run North to South and are not very wide. There are big wide valleys inbetween. If you were to have troubles you would just land in the valley on whatever side of the peak you are on.

I try not to fly at night much over some of these areas because airports are few and far apart,but on the plus side there are many flat spots you could put down safely if you need to.

Don't run low on gas - there are not many options for earlier stops.

The hardest part will be the mountains by Alberquerque because that mountain range is tall AND wide. After that it gets easier.

There are some big MOA's and Restricted areas. Often, especially on Sundays, they are not "hot" you can get clearance through them.

If the weather is good - which it usually is in that area- you may find it one of your easiest and prettiest flights ever.

Good luck and have fun!

Thanks Alan. I'm feeling more and more confident about this trip. We'll be lightly loaded with just my wife and I and average luggage. My J is pretty well equipped including inadvertent TKS. Great advice that I will definitely remember! Thanks.

[donkaye]

i do have a tank and cannulas that came with the airplane when I bought it two years ago. I've had it up to 11K and once I get above 9 it sure seems like a workout. I'd like to do this without O2 if possible. 12K or lower. Thanks for the help. Good to know a J can get that high.

 

 

I'd like to do this without O2 if possible. 

 

I refuse to do any ferrying or cross country flying without Oxygen.  You need a pulse Oximeter to check your O2 saturation level.  It should be above 94%, preferably above 96%.  I can just about guarantee you that if you are a flat lander flying at 9-10 thousand feet without O2 it will be much lower.  This leads to headaches, fatigue, and then poor judgment.

[StinkBug]

I fly out of CRQ and should have a Mooney of my own there soon. Let me know if you want any info on the local area or wanna get together while you're here.

 

..... There is usually a marine layer between JLI and CRQ so your instrument rating will come in handy.
 

 

Usually the marine layer doesn't come more than a few miles inland from the coast, and rarely sticks around past 11am or so. Usually starts creeping back in on the field around 5-6pm but most of the time you can get under it from the east. Since you have an IR it shouldn't be a problem at all, but in the rare situation of the field being totally fogged in you can generally divert to RNM which is almost always clear and is very nearby.

[stevesm20b]

No wind speed is 150kts. Westbound with a headwind usually 16 hours flight time. Eastbound with a tailwind 14 hours. If I leave at 5:00am I can usually arrive by 9:00pm with the time change, and three stops for fuel. Unless the weather gets bad. Last year when I flew from Rochester NY to Southern California in December It took me two days to make the trip. 14 out of the 16 hours flying was solid IFR (in the clouds). Started picking up rime ice south of Flagstaff AZ and had to land in Prescott AZ for the night. Was not a fun trip, don't have an autopilot.   

[stevesm20b]

My route of flight from Genesee County airport in NY(KGVQ) to Apple Valley CA (KAPV). KGVQ-BUF-V14-DJB-VWV-OXI-stop for fuel at KIKK-V144-V10-V502-V4-TOP-stop for fuel at 47K-HUT-V234-V190-FTI-stop for fuel at KAEG-ZUN-V12-V442-HEC-KAPV.

[lahso]

From TN, I've flown as far West as KHND (Las Vegas). Mostly direct from here to Santa Fe or Albuquerque.

 

From Santa Fe to KHND I did airways, filed IFR, and used O2 for those portions over 12k. However, if I make that trip again, I'll use the airways mostly, but go visual and stay around 10,500 (terrain permitting).

[N201MKTurbo]

After you cross the California border you will want to stick to the airways to avoid the restricted airspace. From ABQ to BXK or GBN you can go any way you want avoiding the PHX class B, or going through it if you like. Going direct will not save you much, you might as well fly the airways.

 

BTW stop at KCHD and we will get a bite to eat and talk Mooneys and flying into SoCal. Our gas is cheap and you will be flying over it anyway.

[kevinw]

I refuse to do any ferrying or cross country flying without Oxygen.  You need a pulse Oximeter to check your O2 saturation level.  It should be above 94%, preferably above 96%.  I can just about guarantee you that if you are a flat lander flying at 9-10 thousand feet without O2 it will be much lower.  This leads to headaches, fatigue, and then poor judgement.

Thanks for the advice, Don. Sounds like a good idea.

[Bennett]

Lots of good advice, and I very much agree with Don that even at lower altitudes (9-10,000'), using oxygen on a long trip will leave you less fatigued, and sharper in mind. There is an excellent way into Southern California that will allow you to stay under 10,000' From either the Phoenix or Tucson areas you can fly the airways to stay out of the MOAs and Restricted areas For example:

BKX, BLH, PSP, SOGGI intersection, PMD, and then on to any of the So Cal areas. This route is usually clear most of the year, and if you fly it VFR, with flight following, ATC will probably suggest that you don't fly directly over PSP, but "cut the corner" just a bit to SOGGI intersection. I use this route when flying to and from Scottsdale from San Carlos.

My J "likes" 8-10,000' and this route keeps you away from the Big Bear area with its high MEAs.