DG Overhaul; When is it time???

[BigTex]

I've been flying behind a STEC DG and I've noticed that I'm having to correct the heading more and more. Is there any kind of rule of thumb on when I should have it removed and serviced?

[Cruiser]

when you order your new Aspen EFD 1000 

[BigTex]

when you order your new Aspen EFD 1000 

I knew that was coming!

[Marauder]

Which unit do you have? I have a spare that worked great when removed. I gotta start moving some of this stuff.

[BigTex]

It's the S-TEC 6406-14L.

[Marauder]

It's the S-TEC 6406-14L.

I will be able to let you know what I have tomorrow evening.

[BigTex]

Thanks! 

 

Just curious, how often does everyone else have to adjust their heading?

[N601RX]

Mine was doing this last year. It eventually got to the point that it would start spinning in circles any time I lowered the nose. I looked up the Tso and if I remember correctly it was something like 10 deg per hr or either 15 min.

[Piloto]

Thanks! 

 

Just curious, how often does everyone else have to adjust their heading?

It depends on the type of gyro. If it is a KCS-55A system the gyro is slaved to a remote magnetic compass, thus it never needs manual adjustment. A conventional non slaved DG will hold heading within 5 deg for about 20 minutes if no turns are made. But the more turns are made the greater the drift will be. 

 

Another option I use for heading is the use of the compass arc on the Aera 560 or the GNS 530AW. Unlike a compass that shows where the nose is pointing they indicate the actual ground track. This is more accurate for approaches and ATC heading requests since they only see  your ground track. 

 

José

[jetdriven]

 

Another option I use for heading is the use of the compass arc on the Aera 560 or the GNS 530AW. Unlike a compass that shows where the nose is pointing they indicate the actual ground track. This is more accurate for approaches and ATC heading requests since they only see  your ground track. 

 

José

The ground track given by GPS is invaluable to track the localizer or instrument approach.  However, the idea to fly a ground track when given a heading by ATC is bad advice. In fact, it can cause an accident.  For example, traffic departing parallel runways are assigned runway heading with a crosswind. The upwind airplane flies the heading assigned and the other one flies the runway track. A loss of separation occurs. In fact this very thing happened at LAX a few years ago.  The only place where a track is given to fly is in the UK and some british colonies, and the UAE. IN those instances, the clearance is "track runway heading" or "Track 140...cleared for takeoff"

 

I just wanted to clear this up. Its incorrect and can get someone a pretty quick violation.

 

heres some more info: https://bruceair.wordpress.com/2012/11/01/fly-runway-heading/

[OR75]

Good point. Just like ATC worries about IAS not GS

[John Pleisse]

I have the same DG in the Bo......it is pretty cheesy for an Stec product. Mine won't hold heading for 10 minutes. Please follow-up with your OH experience. I am headed in that direction.

[FlyDave]

If there is any way you can swing a slaved HSI, do it. The slaving eliminates the need to check the DG to compass and tracking navaids or flying an approach with the HSI is like sex!

[BigTex]

I have the same DG in the Bo......it is pretty cheesy for an Stec product. Mine won't hold heading for 10 minutes. Please follow-up with your OH experience. I am headed in that direction.

I've talked to the Gyro House and they'll overhaul it for $795. My only concern is if I'm wasting my time doing the overhaul and only getting marginal improvement. Or should I just deal with it until I'm ready so spend some money on an upgrade.

[N601RX]

When I had to overhaul my DG with autopilot output last year prices varied from $400 to $800 with turnaround from 2 days to 3 weeks. Berkshire Instruments was both the cheapest and fastest.  They seemed to be a family ran business. 

 

http://www.berkshireinstrument.com/

[Piloto]

The ground track given by GPS is invaluable to track the localizer or instrument approach.  However, the idea to fly a ground track when given a heading by ATC is bad advice. In fact, it can cause an accident.  For example, traffic departing parallel runways are assigned runway heading with a crosswind. The upwind airplane flies the heading assigned and the other one flies the runway track. A loss of separation occurs. In fact this very thing happened at LAX a few years ago.  The only place where a track is given to fly is in the UK and some british colonies, and the UAE. IN those instances, the clearance is "track runway heading" or "Track 140...cleared for takeoff"

 

I just wanted to clear this up. Its incorrect and can get someone a pretty quick violation.

 

heres some more info: https://bruceair.wordpress.com/2012/11/01/fly-runway-heading/

 

 

 

It is an interesting point. But what would happen if the compass error of one plane is 5 deg to the left and the other is to 5 deg to the right. And in Mooneys it could be greater. A gyro manual reset on the run up area could be different than on a runway  On IFR departures from parallel runways do you follow the overlay departure procedure on the NAV display or just fly heading? I always follow the GPS extended runway line, specially at night. Never heard a comment from ATC because of this. In either case a cautious controller will avoid simultaneous departures. Not to mention the TCAS blasting interference with ATC communications on simultaneous departures.

 

José

[jetdriven]

 

It is an interesting point. But what would happen if the compass error of one plane is 5 deg to the left and the other is to 5 deg to the right. And in Mooneys it could be greater. A gyro manual reset on the run up area could be different than on a runway  On IFR departures from parallel runways do you follow the overlay departure procedure on the NAV display or just fly heading? I always follow the GPS extended runway line, specially at night. Never heard a comment from ATC because of this. In either case a cautious controller will avoid simultaneous departures.

 

José

 

 

VFR,  single runway, sure, follow the runway centerline. Its good practice.

 

But IFR is a whole different thing. Its incorrect procedure and in the case of parallel runways, can get you a loss of separation and a violation. Airliners fly the compass heading, errors, wind and all, but they all do it, and its consistent.  But go ahead, fly ground track instead of heading (ground track on your VFR-only Aera 500 GPS), and tell them that its all OK, and see what they say. Dont remind them you're going against the pilot/controller glossary, the AIM, the Instrument Procedures Handbook, the Airplane Flying Handbook, the Instrument and Commercial PTS's, and the Jeppesen Airway Manual.

 

And one more thing, the runway verification check of the compass is the last thing you do before adding power for takeoff. You DO do that right?

[BigTex]

When I had to overhaul my DG with autopilot output last year prices varied from $400 to $800 with turnaround from 2 days to 3 weeks. Berkshire Instruments was both the cheapest and fastest.  They seemed to be a family ran business. 

 

http://www.berkshireinstrument.com/

Just checked and my DG would run $650 for an overhaul and $795 for exchange so that's a little bit cheaper than Gyro House.

[N201MKTurbo]

Pm me and I will hook you up with someone who will overhaul it for half the price if you don't need any paper work. It will be better then new.

[jetdriven]

Just checked and my DG would run $650 for an overhaul and $795 for exchange so that's a little bit cheaper than Gyro House.

Give Aircraft Quality Instruments in Wichita a call. I have their DG and an AI they are both 2.5 years old and 400 hours. No issues.

 

350$ for overhaul, goes up if Autopilot equipped.  

http://www.flyaqi.com/gyro.htm

[Piloto]

VFR,  single runway, sure, follow the runway centerline. Its good practice.

 

But IFR is a whole different thing. Its incorrect procedure and in the case of parallel runways, can get you a loss of separation and a violation. Airliners fly the compass heading, errors, wind and all, but they all do it, and its consistent.  But go ahead, fly ground track instead of heading (ground track on your VFR-only Aera 500 GPS), and tell them that its all OK, and see what they say. Dont remind them you're going against the pilot/controller glossary, the AIM, the Instrument Procedures Handbook, the Airplane Flying Handbook, the Instrument and Commercial PTS's, and the Jeppesen Airway Manual.

 

And one more thing, the runway verification check of the compass is the last thing you do before adding power for takeoff. You DO do that right?

 

Well here is my dilemma. On a crosswind condition departing from KORL on rwy 07 how do I avoid drifting into the downwind path of rwy 07 or KMCO class B on departure. If a follow the compass only the crosswind will put me on the down wind path, with  a possibility a head on midair. If a follow the rwy extended line I am clear of the downwind path. This scenario is more common than on parallel runways 

[jetdriven]

Tracking the runway centerline when VFR is good operating procedure.  The MCO class B is 30 degrees or more south of the extended centerline for 07, how much wind are we talking..

 

But when IFR you look at the DG and fly that. Let it drift, everyone does that, separation is maintained. Controllers feel the wind too, and they assign headings based on desired ground track.   They are two different regimes.

[Piloto]

Tracking the runway centerline when VFR is good operating procedure.  The MCO class B is 30 degrees or more south of the extended centerline for 07, how much wind are we talking..

 

But when IFR you look at the DG and fly that. Let it drift, everyone does that, separation is maintained. Controllers feel the wind too, and they assign headings based on desired ground track.   They are two different regimes.

Even on IFR departures from KORL rwy 7 ATC wants me to maintain below 1500ft until approaching next Class B boundary. The problem here is the radio tower farm NE of KORL. If I left the plane drift NE flying heading only I will be in the flight path of the towers. While if I follow the rwy extended line I will be clear of the towers. The Aera 560 depict the towers in yellow and red so you can avoid them. Another option to fly rwy heading is by using the rwy ILS if it has back course antenna or an ILS at the other end. Just make sure the BC switch is set up right. The approach and departure of runways is usually lined up to avoid nearby obstacles or terrain. Allowing the plane to drift can get you into trouble specially in foggy conditions like those in the morning at KORL

 

José

[ArtVandelay]

Even on IFR departures from KORL rwy 7 ATC wants me to maintain below 1500ft until approaching next Class B boundary. The problem here is the radio tower farm NE of KORL. If I left the plane drift NE flying heading only I will be in the flight path of the towers. While if I follow the rwy extended line I will be clear of the towers. The Aera 560 depict the towers in yellow and red so you can avoid them. Another option to fly rwy heading is by using the rwy ILS if it has back course antenna or an ILS at the other end. Just make sure the BC switch is set up right. The approach and departure of runways is usually lined up to avoid nearby obstacles or terrain. Allowing the plane to drift can get you into trouble specially in foggy conditions like those in the morning at KORL

José

If it's IFR, I would expect vectors to avoid the towers, not letting planes just drift aimlessly

[carusoam]

Drifting..yes...

Aimless..not really...

The current discussion is...

Everybody drifting the same by using a compass heading. No matter what the wind does to track.

Somebody not drifting the same by maintaining a course line. While others drift 'controlled' with heading

Makes me want to be sure what I should be doing before putting the power in...

Best regards,

-a-