Winterizing Mooney Rocket

[Houman]

Hi,

Well a bit depressed waiting for Rocket to repair my collector/transition turbo before I can fly again, it looks like it is going to be sometime near the end of October start of November and with that tought, I was thinking that I probably need to winterize the Rocket before long.

My Mechanic showed me that I have intercoolers on top of the engine, so I guess it is because of all that power and it can get hot, but wondering what needs to be done on the K model body and Rocket engine in particular for winter, mind you I live in Montreal, so it gets cold here and lasts several months...

My google search brought up some oil cooling issues from an MS post, but not a detailed solution to remediate that, specially flying cold and high ( FL150 to FL180 )

Thanks for any advice !!!

[Skywarrior]

Keep an eagle eye on TIT, CHT and EGT. Don't push the limits. At high power settings, you must run much richer than you might think - up to 200 deg ROP (if you're not running LOP).

 

Or, lower your power settings for usual flying, and only "pour the coals to it" when you really do need the extra power.

 

You can get a lot of power out of a Rocket, but that doesn't mean you always *should*.

 

As Chris Rock says, "I could drive a car with my feet... but that doesn't mean it's a good ****ing idea !!"

[aviatoreb]

I find my rocket already runs cool in the summer. It runs extremely cool in the winter.  How do I change my winter ops relative to summer ops?

 

1)  Preheat!!!!!  Where you live - same climate as where I live - get yourself a turbo Rieff heater.  And a blanket for the cowl. Are you in a hangar?

2) Oil will not reach temps in winter.  (180F).  I tape off the oil cooler.

3) I do not bother opening cowl flaps even on take off during the deep winter.

4) I do not run full take-off pressure on take off in the winter.  The air is dense and cold so you could produce more than rated horsepower - you will if it is extreme cold - I mean like -20C and such.  When it is well below freezing I keep my index finger width inbetween pushing in full manifold pressure (that is the difference then between 38'' and more like 34-35'').  I figure that keeps me from over-power in extreme cold.  Nonetheless - winter climb rates at this reduced setting can still top 2000fpm.  That seems like enough.  Not to mention I get off the ground pretty quickly.

5) I use Prist in the fuel.

6) Keep TKS tanks always topped and try to choose flight planning to not need it.

7) White slippery runways.

8) My rocket has a truly superior heater for the cabin.  Does yours?  I think early rockets had poor heating but later they improved it to excellent.

9) I don't fly if it is below -20 to -23C or so (OAT on the ground - not at altitude).  This usually just means I cannot fly first thing in the morning, but some rarer days that will be the high for the day.  WhY - 3 reasons - a I don't want to risk freezing to death if there is ever an airport landing and I freeze trying to trek back to civilization, b it is uncomfortable on the taramac getting the plane ready if it gets too cold, c - in the most extreme cold like -30 to -35C I worry how the airplane will hold up.

10) dress (or bring cloths) as if you are planning to spend an hour or a dozen hours in a field off airport.  Also I carry a sleeping bag and a survival kit in the back in the winter.

[aaronk25]

IMHO, I'd. Wouldn't worry about the extra power you make because of lower density altitude, but the oil cooler congealing is possibly a concern on your engine and was on my IO360 J model.

Sure it's a different motor, but still has a oil cooler. It got to-38c and my oil temp went from 155 (which is to cold anyway) to 230 in 5 mins. On mine a cut a piece of foil faced insulation (I think it was 3/8") and placed it in front of the oil cooler so it covered 1/2 of it. That works perfect and keeps my oil temp up in the 165-185 range instead of 155..,,but more importantly keeps the oil cooler temp up warmer so the oil doesn't turn into thick gooey molasses inside the cooler.

On my little motor I was able to pull power back enough, and run 75lop to help get the temps back to 200, but on a big engine like yours, you might burn it up if a cooler congeals.

Rocket might have already addressed this as these engines are designed to run up in the "cold" flight levels, but they may not have taken Canadian winters into account!

Call rocket see what three thoughts are.

[M20F]

Hi - i don't know for certain but would think putting Prist into 100LL is probably not a good thing. 100LL freezes at -58C which is beyond I have to think anything anyone would encounter in GA.

[aviatoreb]

Hi - i don't know for certain but would think putting Prist into 100LL is probably not a good thing. 100LL freezes at -58C which is beyond I have to think anything anyone would encounter in GA.

 

Prist is approved for 100LL and there is a special packaging of it designed specifically for piston use. And the need for it in piston is slightly different than in jet operations.

 

The fear in piston operations is different than it is in jet operations for water in the fuel.  The fear is that any small water will freeze and block the fuel intake. This can happen on the ground in your hangar if it is cold enough, or it can happen in the air.  That can happen well warmer than -58C where the fuel itself freezes.  I have read stories where this happened and I have been told by a Mooney driver here (offline) how he knows other Mooney drivers this has happened too. Things get cold at altitudes of even 10 or 15k when it is -20C on the ground.

 

I know it might be a bit overboard, but hey, its only $0.10 per gallon extra per fillup - and it makes my fillup that much more messy and fun!

 

I read that the Canadian Mounties (the flying Canadian Mounties - I am not sure why they are still called Mounties if they are not on a horse but flying around in something with a prop) use the stuff.  Good enough for them so good enough for me.

[Houman]

Thanks to all for advice, Erik here is my situation :

 

I am in a heated hanger, this is my 1st year ownership of the Rocket and the hanger belongs to the co-owner of the plane. I don't know what temperature he leaves the hanger at, but it has both electric and gas powered heating system.

 

As for the Turbo Reiff system, is this something that is permanently installed on the engine or is it put it on, take it off... I say this because I don't feel like removing the cowling each time, I fly often alone and the cowling is pretty big and heavy to handle easily alone....

 

For the Cowl Flaps and not full power, I will arrange my check list for winter operations, thanks for those as well...

 

Where would one buy aviation Prist, I'm guessing it's not the same as for automotive use, I will look it up.

 

As for heating, I have #58 Rocket conversion according to Lin at Rocket engineering, so not sure which heating system I have, but I feel that it heats pretty good when I have flown it at FL150, so hopefully I got the better heater in there, is there a way to check ?

 

Thanks !!!

[carusoam]

Engine pre heat systems are pretty simple...

Look for one silicone pad on the bottom.

One silicone pad on the top.

And possibly a band on each cylinder.

Each heating device will have a wire attached to it.

One 110V plug is the method to activate the system.

Get a preheater switch so you can turn it on remotely from a phone...

The system is light weight and permanently mounted.

Don't leave it turned on hoping it will dry water out of the oil. Water will condense in other areas...

Once the engine is running, the Reiff pre heat system is not usually connected, even at FL150?

Does that help?

-a-

[Houman]

Thanks Carusoam, the comment about heater at FL150 was the cabin heater, not the engine heater of course...

 

I think I will research it more and have it added at our next annual...

[aviatoreb]

Thanks to all for advice, Erik here is my situation :

 

I am in a heated hanger, this is my 1st year ownership of the Rocket and the hanger belongs to the co-owner of the plane. I don't know what temperature he leaves the hanger at, but it has both electric and gas powered heating system.

 

As for the Turbo Reiff system, is this something that is permanently installed on the engine or is it put it on, take it off... I say this because I don't feel like removing the cowling each time, I fly often alone and the cowling is pretty big and heavy to handle easily alone....

 

For the Cowl Flaps and not full power, I will arrange my check list for winter operations, thanks for those as well...

 

Where would one buy aviation Prist, I'm guessing it's not the same as for automotive use, I will look it up.

 

As for heating, I have #58 Rocket conversion according to Lin at Rocket engineering, so not sure which heating system I have, but I feel that it heats pretty good when I have flown it at FL150, so hopefully I got the better heater in there, is there a way to check ?

 

Thanks !!!

 

If you have a heated hangar you are probably good.  Can he keep it at 5C or so at least?

 

My biggest concern re prist is to prevent water in the fuel (never found any btw) which would normally sump out to instead be solid/frozen at the sump outlet and also possibly block fuel flow.  In a heated hangar that would not happen.  It can also happen in flight but I am not sure if that is more likely.  This as you see is controversial and I am in the minority of GA folks by far who worry about such things, but I do live in the extreme North of NY state in the Adirondack region so actually our over night temps are comparable or colder than in Ottawa - and I do have a turbo so I do fly very high.  

 

The Rieff stays on the engine full time.  I have a little 3 prong electric plug that I plug into by reaching into the nose.  It is no big deal and I can use it or not and it is otherwise invisible to all operations.  I preheat if below 5C - if I didn't have it then I would probably not worry until maybe 0C.   Its super lightweight and stays on your engine full time, even in the summer - it is powered by a wall cord on the ground and just sits there passively otherwise.  Its a great system.  I would not own an airplane in the north without - I had one installed on my last airplane (DA40) and then this one first thing.  Even if my hangar were heated I would still want one since they say even one cold start creates scuffing damage to the engine like 100s of hours of normal use. (Remember your airplane has soft aluminum parts unlike your car engine).

 

Never ever use an automotive product in your fuel.  Prist is similar, but specially formulated, and just as important, the delivery device is formulated to apply the perfect distribution into the fuel commensurate with a avgas burner.  I got my Prist from aircraft spruce but I called the company prist on the phone first to ask them specifically which packaging of their product I wanted.  It is a product that is firmly planted and common in aircraft operations, but mostly for jet-A burners.

[Houman]

Thanks again Erik, actually water in the thank is one of my big concerns, for some reason, my right wing fuel tank has always water in it when I drain it from under the wing... not the left wing tank, I think I have a sealant issue with the fuel cap... I have not worried about it too much yet since I have only flown the plane in the summer and always drain the water during my walk around, but I guess I have to make sure it is fixed for the winter and be even more cautious...

 

Water at FL150 or higher freezing is the tank would not be fun at all I would imagine...

[Super Dave]

Not to be argumentative, I know the subject of closed cowl flaps for ground ops has come up in other threads, but just incase someone wasn't around for the other thread...

 

I wouldn't ever recommend closing cowl flaps for ground ops. John Deakin doesn't recommend it even in arctic conditions, and I've never seen a POH that recommends it.

[aviatoreb]

Not to be argumentative, I know the subject of closed cowl flaps for ground ops has come up in other threads, but just incase someone wasn't around for the other thread...

 

I wouldn't ever recommend closing cowl flaps for ground ops. John Deakin doesn't recommend it even in arctic conditions, and I've never seen a POH that recommends it.

 

Quite right.  I meant for climb in arctic conditions close flaps.  I am not sure about other peoples Mooneys generally, or rockets specifically, but my flaps open on their own on the ground.  I have to deliberately close them in flight - which in summer I do at the top of the climb or in winter I do immediately.

[Houman]

Same here, it seems that my cowl flaps are forced opened mostly by the air flow pressure on takeoff and pretty hard to close once you level off...

[aviatoreb]

Same here, it seems that my cowl flaps are forced opened mostly by the air flow pressure on takeoff and pretty hard to close once you level off...

 

When I first got my airplane it took significant manual forcer to close flaps once level off - I HAD to remember to close them while still climbing - after a thorough lubing and a slight bending (unbending) of a joint in that knee joint near the actual flap - my cowl flaps are as easy to close in level flight as they are to open and close on the ground.

[M20F]

I would reccomend the best Reiff system with the oil cooler heater which installed is going to be I want to say about $1000 and works great. While you have a heated hanger at home, you may not at a lot of places you fly to. Airplane engines are made out of all differing kinds of metal and that is what you are looking to heat more than the oil. A Reiff system turns the inside of your cowling to about 60 degrees if left on over night with a good cowl cover. I flew out of KJMS once at -10F and my cylinders were 70 degrees prior to start. A heater pad will heat the oil but it isn't going to do much to heat the cylinders, case, or oil cooler. This to me is just one of those things where spending a little bit of money pays out in the long term.

If you are going to mess with Prist buy protective gear and get somebody to show you how to use the cans. You have to aerosol it into the fuel stream while fueling, you can't just dump it into the tanks. It is also as Erik points out used to eliminate water not act as a deicer so if you come out and your sumps are frozen it isn't going to fix it. If you are getting a lot of water in the tank replacing the o-rings generally fixes it and they are cheap. A hanger fairy replaces mine 2x a year but easy enough to have done at annual as well.

[aviatoreb]

I would reccomend the best Reiff system with the oil cooler heater which installed is going to be I want to say about $1000 and works great. While you have a heated hanger at home, you may not at a lot of places you fly to. Airplane engines are made out of all differing kinds of metal and that is what you are looking to heat more than the oil. A Reiff system turns the inside of your cowling to about 60 degrees if left on over night with a good cowl cover. I flew out of KJMS once at -10F and my cylinders were 70 degrees prior to start. A heater pad will heat the oil but it isn't going to do much to heat the cylinders, case, or oil cooler. This to me is just one of those things where spending a little bit of money pays out in the long term.

If you are going to mess with Prist buy protective gear and get somebody to show you how to use the cans. You have to aerosol it into the fuel stream while fueling, you can't just dump it into the tanks. It is also as Erik points out used to eliminate water not act as a deicer so if you come out and your sumps are frozen it isn't going to fix it. If you are getting a lot of water in the tank replacing the o-rings generally fixes it and they are cheap. A hanger fairy replaces mine 2x a year but easy enough to have done at annual as well.

 

I watched a youtube video on how to use the dispenser cans - its just how you said - it sprays into the fueling stream as you fuel. 

 

I am not wearing protective gear - should I?  I thought it is mostly alcohol which is less toxic than the rest of the fuel.

 

Why does't the hangar fairy visit my hangar?

 

And of course most of these things we are discussing here are not Rocket specific for winter ops.

[aviatoreb]

Curious - does anyone else besides me run prist in 100LL?

[M20F]

I have only used Prist cans a couple of times and it was with Jet-A. Despite best efforts I generally made a mess and would get sprayed. I don't think it will kill you but it certainly isn't great to jump in a plane smelling like kerosene, but again more me being messy than anything else. It is important that you use the right mixture when you do it, otherwise it can turn into goop at the bottom of the tank with Jet-A, would assume same is true with 100LL.

I am leery about additives of any kind because really not good data on what they do to gaskets, tank seal, etc. I find good cap gaskets and sumping regularly works for me. If you do get a bit of water in tank it usually mixes around enough in flight to not be an issue. Where I have had water issues (including a frozen sump) has come from sitting and you can resolve it just by sumping the tank. It takes a lot of water to cause a problem and generally that lot of water is pretty apparent when you start up (if you forgot to sump) and the plane wants to shake apart from running so rough.

I would be curious to know if anyone has actually had an ice issue in the tanks while flying after they sumped the tanks.

[aaronk25]

How about some simple isopropyl alcohol?