Mooneys at Weber's (KLNS) Today June 20th?

[carusoam]

http://www.bendixking.com/HWL/media/PDF/kt-74-brochure-012914-FINAL.pdf

I was not able to tell if it had it's own encoder...

They used words like...

Built in altitude repeater?

If they meant encoder, they would have said encoder?

It mentions the required GPSW requirement, but doesn't say it needs an encoder?

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

Thanks Anthony. I wonder if there are any non-Mode S versions of the BK units. I would rather spend money on an ADS-B out box that would give me "in" as well.

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[Danb]

Chris I foolishly had Lancaster avionics do some stuff a few yrs ago while my plane was in annual...agreed they are quite on the high end. Most likely not there fault when I got the plane home I had some problems with avionics of which I had Dale fix...

[Bob_Belville]

Someone here will have to tell us. I know that when we redid my panel we changed xponders from a KT76a to a Garmin 327 and got rid of a blind encoder. We did not change the mechanical altimeter which I assume is not a combo encoder. I think we needed a xponder compatible with the GDL88 but which device is the pressure sensor I don't know. Edit: the 327 manual says the xponder reports p altitude from an external source. I'll have to figure out what this is. I know I sold the old blind encoder...

Chris, this might be of interest in your application: Here's what Robbie Greer suggested re encoder:

 

"Most likely the Aspen provides the altitude to everything and it does only provide pressure altitude out so the baro setting does not effect the output. You can double check this by looking at the altitude on the 327 and then turn the Aspen off - the altitude should go away within a couple seconds."

 

I'll verify it the next time I'm in the plane. 

[Marauder]

Chris, this might be of interest in your application: Here's what Robbie Greer suggested re encoder:

 

"Most likely the Aspen provides the altitude to everything and it does only provide pressure altitude out so the baro setting does not effect the output. You can double check this by looking at the altitude on the 327 and then turn the Aspen off - the altitude should go away within a couple seconds."

 

I'll verify it the next time I'm in the plane. 

 

Thanks Bob. It will be interesting to see what you find out on this. If it does work this way, it may change my approach on how to handle things going forward. I would like to dump the 1980s vintage blind encoder but the cheapest way at this point may be to update the encoder not the transponder. I think the blind encoder is the device that determines the altitude (pressure altitude?) and reports this to ATC.

 

I do like the idea of knowing what I am reporting out to ATC. At this point, I'm blind (sorry couldn't help myself) to what is being reported.

 

BTW -- do any of you fly with two transponders?

[John Pleisse]

You either have a blind encoder, or reporting altimeter...nothing else. I have purchased one autopilot and several radio repairs at Lancaster Avionics. They are good, but you have to book a month in advance and pay a premium.

[Bob_Belville]

You either have a blind encoder, or reporting altimeter...nothing else. I have purchased one autopilot and several radio repairs at Lancaster Avionics. They are good, but you have to book month in advance and pay a premium.

If that pronouncement is intended for me, I am certain I have neither a blind encoder nor a reporting altimeter.

 

The avionics shop says the Aspen PFD is providing Pressure Altitude to the xponder (GTX327) as well as the gps (GTN750), and possibly the EDM (JPI 930)  and the GDL 88. I will confirm that to Marauder tomorrow after I verify that the 327 P-ALT display is dependent upon the Aspen being on. 

[Bob_Belville]

Thanks Bob. It will be interesting to see what you find out on this. If it does work this way, it may change my approach on how to handle things going forward. I would like to dump the 1980s vintage blind encoder but the cheapest way at this point may be to update the encoder not the transponder. I think the blind encoder is the device that determines the altitude (pressure altitude?) and reports this to ATC.

 

I do like the idea of knowing what I am reporting out to ATC. At this point, I'm blind (sorry couldn't help myself) to what is being reported.

 

BTW -- do any of you fly with two transponders?

Chris, as Robbie surmised, the GTX 327 gets its P ALT from the Aspen PFD. When I powered off the Aspen this morning the 327 PALT display went blank. It came back after the PFD had gone through its restart routine. And if I set the Aspen BARO to 29.92  the PDF altitude tape matches the 327 display. (I know we had to change xponders when we did the whole panel. I had a perfectly good KT76a, I actually had 2 but only one was installed the previous owner was based @ VKX and was absolutely grounded if xponder went south so he kept a backup and an Allen wrench in the plane. I also sold a blind encoder which had provided palt to the old xponder. Since Aspen makes their stuff play nice with everything I suspect I could have kept the old transponder as fas as the Aspen was concerned but the GDX 88 probably dictated the Garmin xponder. I'm guessing about that last statement.)

[John Pleisse]

I have a series 2000 Evolution package and no such wiring was done. My alt rep comes from an Aerosonic. Quite ironically, my Aspen is reading 200 feet incorrectly and needs exploration.

[Marauder]

Chris, as Robbie surmised, the GTX 327 gets its P ALT from the Aspen PFD. When I powered off the Aspen this morning the 327 PALT display went blank. It came back after the PFD had gone through its restart routine. And if I set the Aspen BARO to 29.92 the PDF altitude tape matches the 327 display. (I know we had to change xponders when we did the whole panel. I had a perfectly good KT76a, I actually had 2 but only one was installed the previous owner was based @ VKX and was absolutely grounded if xponder went south so he kept a backup and an Allen wrench in the plane. I also sold a blind encoder which had provided palt to the old xponder. Since Aspen makes their stuff play nice with everything I suspect I could have kept the old transponder as fas as the Aspen was concerned but the GDX 88 probably dictated the Garmin xponder. I'm guessing about that last statement.)

Thanks Bob. I'm flying behind a Narco AT-150 that doesn't have a read-out and uses a blind encoder that taps into the static system. So, based on what you are saying, I could get a GTX-327 and eliminate the blind encoder. Hmmm...

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[Marauder]

I have a series 2000 Evolution package and no such wiring was done. My alt rep comes from an Aerosonic. Quite ironically, my Aspen is reading 200 feet incorrectly and needs exploration.

John - I am in the middle of this saga with Lancaster Avionics. My 4 altitude sources (Aspens, mechanical altimeter and encoder) were all disagreeing with each other. My problem was that my primary Aspen, was reading low at the altitudes I fly and the encoder was reading high. So when I flew at the assigned altitude, the combination of the two errors put me close to 200 feet high.

The tech that worked on my plane said that the altitude on the Aspens tend to deviate more frequently than a mechanical altimeter. Mine are all agreeing at this point.

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[Bob_Belville]

Thanks Bob. I'm flying behind a Narco AT-150 that doesn't have a read-out and uses a blind encoder that taps into the static system. So, based on what you are saying, I could get a GTX-327 and eliminate the blind encoder. Hmmm...

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Sounds like it.

 

From Aspen's web site, the PFD accesses the aircraft's pitot/static systems with a "quick connect". Would the xponder connection be RS-232?

http://www.aspenavionics.com/products/general-aviation/evolution-1000   I/O Specifications:

ARINC 429 Inputs   5 Low Speed

ARINC 429 Outputs   1 Low Speed

RS-232 Inputs   5

RS-232 Outputs   3

Pitot / Static   Quick Connect

[Bob_Belville]

I have a series 2000 Evolution package and no such wiring was done. My alt rep comes from an Aerosonic. Quite ironically, my Aspen is reading 200 feet incorrectly and needs exploration.

200' altimeter error? Could make a 200&1/2 approach interesting. Are you setting the Aspen BARO to 29.92 to compare to blind encoder info?  

[Bob_Belville]

John - I am in the middle of this saga with Lancaster Avionics. My 4 altitude sources (Aspens, mechanical altimeter and encoder) were all disagreeing with each other. My problem was that my primary Aspen, was reading low at the altitudes I fly and the encoder was reading high. So when I flew at the assigned altitude, the combination of the two errors put me close to 200 feet high.

The tech that worked on my plane said that the altitude on the Aspens tend to deviate more frequently than a mechanical altimeter. Mine are all agreeing at this point.

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FWIW, my Aspen is dead on field elevation with current BARO. My mechanical altimeter reads 40' high.

[Bob_Belville]

John - I am in the middle of this saga with Lancaster Avionics. My 4 altitude sources (Aspens, mechanical altimeter and encoder) were all disagreeing with each other. My problem was that my primary Aspen, was reading low at the altitudes I fly and the encoder was reading high. So when I flew at the assigned altitude, the combination of the two errors put me close to 200 feet high.

The tech that worked on my plane said that the altitude on the Aspens tend to deviate more frequently than a mechanical altimeter. Mine are all agreeing at this point.

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Sounds like you need to ignore all that old stuff and rely on your smart phone gps altitude...

[Marauder]

Sounds like you need to ignore all that old stuff and rely on your smart phone gps altitude...

At times I think you are right. In the old days, it seemed simpler but obviously limited. I like the additional information being available with the newer technology, but it sure does open up a Pandora's Box when the information doesn't agree.

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[John Pleisse]

200' altimeter error? Could make a 200&1/2 approach interesting. Are you setting the Aspen BARO to 29.92 to compare to blind encoder info?  

 

Yeah...thank goodness have not done one in 4 years (solo). Baro is always set...No  blind encoder, but encoder altimeter that remains in the panel. It is dead nuts on. This error was discovered with ATC..they were nice about it. Aerosonic is still dead on. Somebody buy my damn Mooney before I rip all the avionics out, keep'em and pimp my 201 low.

[Marauder]

Sounds like it.

From Aspen's web site, the PFD accesses the aircraft's pitot/static systems with a "quick connect". Would the xponder connection be RS-232? http://www.aspenavionics.com/products/general-aviation/evolution-1000 I/O Specifications:

ARINC 429 Inputs 5 Low Speed

ARINC 429 Outputs 1 Low Speed

RS-232 Inputs 5

RS-232 Outputs 3

Pitot / Static Quick Connect

Ok Bob, just got off of the phone with Aspen. Kind of refreshing that they picked up the call immediately. As you have so smartly surmised the Aspen does indeed have the capability of putting out on the RS-232 the altitude it is reporting. The caveat is that it will only work with the modern "digital" transponders - like the GTX-327. The tech specialist wasn't sure about the new KT-74 but thought it would most likely work as well.

So, this is a solution for us owners of blind encoders owners who want to update.

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[Bob_Belville]

Ok Bob, just got off of the phone with Aspen. Kind of refreshing that they picked up the call immediately. As you have so smartly surmised the Aspen does indeed have the capability of putting out on the RS-232 the altitude it is reporting. The caveat is that it will only work with the modern "digital" transponders - like the GTX-327. The tech specialist wasn't sure about the new KT-74 but thought it would most likely work as well.

So, this is a solution for us owners of blind encoders owners who want to update.

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In October 2012 I paid about $1800 for a GTX 327 with a rack. I sold the old KT76a for $500. And the GDL 88 was $3800. Since you have the Aspen, for ~$5000 plus a little install you can be 2020 ready and have NEXRAD, traffic... 

[John Pleisse]

I have a GTX 330, will get mine wired. Thanks fellas.