Starter still engaged when moving prop

[Awqward]

May be a silly question..., I just failed to start my J in a warm start....ran the battery down.., on order to pull it clear of the fuel bay I needed to turn the prop 90deg as usual... Only this time the starter was still engaged...is this as a result of a failed start...assuming it had actually started would it have disengaged...or have I got an unworthy airplane??

Anthony Q

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[Piloto]

The starter remaining engaged after a failed start is perfectly normal. It will disengage as soon the engine starts. The new light weight starters like the Skytec do not remain engaged after a failed start and they crank the engine faster. They are worth it, specially for hot starts.

 

José 

[N201MKTurbo]

Jose is correct the original Prestolite bendix does not have a spring to retract the gear. It requires the engine to start and back drive the bendix to get it to retract.

[Awqward]

Phew!....anyway got it started after a quick recharge....luckily I still had the charger in back....and yes the prop is free now that it has run...,thanks for your help..,

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[OR75]

It will disengage with centrifugal force as the prop starts spinning.

[TWinter]

This happened to me during a hot start. After several attempts of a restart and waiting for a flooded engine to clear I looked at the starter and prop I noticed the starter gear was still engaged on the prop. You could turn the prop and the gear would remain in engaged (no worries, key was off of course). The prop would rotate, but was very difficult since the starter cog gear was still engaged. At the time I was still fairly new to hot start technique and was bad about fumbling the hot starts. 

 

Since I was at a airport away from home I had no choice except to wait out the flooded attempts. About twenty minutes later I tried one more time and she coughed, chugged and spurted, but finally caught and started...I was pretty discouraged and ready to get home. 

 

After I got home I looked at the starter gear and it was back where it should be off the prop. Not sure it was the right thing to do, but sprayed some lube around the starter cog area, I now make sure I spray some lubrication around the starter cog every now and then. While it's not in the manual and maybe not the recommended maintenance I've never had it do it lock out again..., but also over the past few years I've gotten much better w/ my hot starts. Not a answer to your question, just an experience I had similar in nature.

[TWinter]

By the time I got done posting there were three updates. Thanks for the info..Glad to know it was not a starter issue. At the time I was like..Oh shitz, what have I done to the starter, fried?. Thanks guys.

[Awqward]

Thanks TW....it sounds like you went through the same mental turmoil as me!...I only had to taxy a few hundred yards after the restart...i suspected it required a running engine to properly disengage but nevertheless I would have been worried if I flew it before checking it again....and I too am struggling with hot starts....not even hot just warm...I had taxied over to the bowser from a cold start.... I too am a relatively new owner...still learning...I've cracked cold starts...starts almost instantly....it's not that often I have to go hot/warm starts....the fuel truck comes to me at home...

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[nels]

I think the starter works about the same as the one in your car. When the starter turns over to start the engine, the starter pinion winds it's way out to the ring gear and engages it. There is another reverse thread on this Bendix which once the engine starts and speeds up the pinion faster than the starter it winds it's way back to the retract position. I think the spring is there to absorb the retact impact as it can be pretty substantial.

[yvesg]

I think there is a way to manually retract the cog gear (using a screw driver maybe?). Would anyone know how could this be done?

Yves

[Guest]

Once the Bendix is engaged it will remain in that position until the engine starts and centrifugal force disengages the drive pins in the Bendix.

The only way to do it manually is remove the cowls, remove the starter, dis assemble the starter, dis assemble the Bendix, and retract the pins, the re assemble everything.

Easier in my opinion to charge the battery and start the engine.

Clarence

[BillC]

I think there is a way to manually retract the cog gear (using a screw driver maybe?). Would anyone know how could this be done?

Yves

I gotta ask........why would you want to do that?

[yvesg]

Just curious...

I do not really want to do it for a Mooney but if there would be a way this could be beneficial for smaller engines that could have the prop swing after a dead battery. I think it would be almost impossible to swing one that is engaged.

Yves

[Jeev]

Follow this procedure it works every time for my j and learned it here on MooneySpace :

When you know you will performing a hot start on shutdown lock the throttle at about 1000rpm or a little higher.

Pull mixture to shutdown

DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING

To hot start unlock throttle but don't move it

No boost pump, Crank and be ready to quickly increase mixture and throttle when it starts to sputter

Helpful hint- Be quick to increase mixture and throttle I have found if it sputters and dies after the first attempt hot starts are really hard

If that method doesn't work check out your plugs they most likely are partially fowled or bad. If plugs are good check timing. If both plus and timing are good then check yourself :-)

 

All this is made much easier with a high speed starter, it think it is a very nice upgrade for not a ton of cash......

[BillC]

Just curious...

I do not really want to do it for a Mooney but if there would be a way this could be beneficial for smaller engines that could have the prop swing after a dead battery. I think it would be almost impossible to swing one that is engaged.

Yves

That makes sense, Yves.

Thanks,

Bill

[jetdriven]

One thing to add. When it fires, give it mixture but then look at the fuel pressure gauge. It will often drop to 15 PSI or less when the mechanical fuel pump gets vapor locked and can't move fuel. The it tries to die. A brief application of electric boost pump will fix this. Get it to 1500 RPM for a couple seconds and all the hot air gets blown out of the cowling.

[Awqward]

Well after reading everything I could find on Mooneyspace, the MAPA lis, POA etc I think I may have hot starts cracked! 4 for 4 so far....