Useful load full fuel payload Mooney 252 vs Bravo vs Ovation

[manoflamancha]

I'm looking at best payload in Mooney and wondering which models have the best payload with full fuel.

[Hank]

You might also enquire what "full fuel" is in hours. Stinkypants flew his J with extended tanks nonstop from NYC to San Marcos, ~12 hours?; someone else flew their E [tank size unknown, and name escapes me at the moment] nonstop San Diego to Savannah, ~16 hours with 2-3 hours left over.

 

Personally, I have 670 lbs with 5½ hours' fuel.

[manoflamancha]

Good point, I'd definitely want to add long range Monroy tanks for extra long trips.

[carusoam]

Better point, we watched both of those long distance flights live on flightaware!

The O has 100+ gallons of fuel and four seats, UL is just over 1,000 LBs

There is also one quirky limitation of maximum landing weight about an hour's worth of fuel that you may want to have burned off if you need to land unexpectedly.

NJ to FL is a normal flight, but realistically how many people will want to or are capable of crossing their legs that long?

We stop once for food, fuel and comfort. There are no rest stops at 10,000'.

Best regards,

-a-

[Jerry 5TJ]

Until you get a plane with the potty option about 3 hours is the max flight duration with most passengers.  

 

Agree a good way to measure fuel is in duration, not gallons.   In my "C" all 52 gallons is good for over 5 hours of flight.  

 

One major use of more fuel load is to enable legal alternates for IFR.   A couple extra hours gas aboard can be the difference between making a flight and scrubbing it.   Lots of reserve fuel in the tanks seems to make hard IMC a little less stressful, too.  IMO.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Danb]

My Bravo has a ul of 990. 130 gal Monroy tanks..based on your power settings you can fly forever. I generally fly Wiln De to New Orleans non stop.

[mike_elliott]

You might also enquire what "full fuel" is in hours. Stinkypants flew his J with extended tanks nonstop from NYC to San Marcos, ~12 hours?; someone else flew their E [tank size unknown, and name escapes me at the moment] nonstop San Diego to Savannah, ~16 hours with 2-3 hours left over.

 

Personally, I have 670 lbs with 5½ hours' fuel.

Jonathan Paul, 89 Gal. World record coast to coast non stop. 

[Hank]

Thanks, Mike! 89 gallons makes for a "normal" 10-hour endurance, but Mr. Super LOP almost doubled that.

[Danb]

That's unreal. Wonder what his true air speed was ?

[Seth]

The F model has some of the best useful loads with some examples just touching 1100.  Mine was 1047 or 1048 with 50 gallons of fuel (bladders) or 4.5 hours of high speed cruise with a 5 gallon reserve (I was on the ground regardless in 4 hours - except once or twice).  So full fuel payload was 747 or 748.  Wet wings were 30 pounds better in the useful load world and held 60 or 64 gallons of fuel.  Mine actually held 55, with 50 useable. 

 

My Missile has the extended Monroy tanks and has a 1067 or 1068 useful load (I'm flipping numbers this morning the 7 and 8, I'll have to look them up).  it carries 98 gallons, so LOP with the power pulled back that's 10+ hours or 1500 miles in zero wind.   I tend to fly it faster however - think 1000 miles in 5 hours or if there are passengers, 60 gallons for three hours plus a lot of extra fuel (45 min to an hour reserve depending). 

 

I plan for 175 knots in the 12-13 range ROP, but can push it to 180 (14-17 gph) or 185 at higher fuel burns (20 gph at 185) and can burn up the engine to get 190 knots.  Fuel burn all depends on altitude and engine settings (RPM, Manifold, and mixture).  The Missile is a baby ovation - J model modified with an IO-550.  Speeds are a tad more due to the lighter weight than the O1 and O2 not modified for the 310 HP.  O3 numbers tend to beat the Missile by a hair.  Great value for the performance - the Missile mod gives a gross weight increase of 250 to account for the greater HP and bigger engine.

 

-Seth

[KSMooniac]

Let me add a bit of a twist to the discussion... comparing full-fuel payload across different makes or models is pointless in my opinion.  You need to think in terms of either how far you want to go, and/or how much you want to carry while doing so.  With modern fuel totalizer systems, there is no reason one couldn't take off with the exact amount of fuel required to complete a flight, so for example if you have a long body with only 1000 lbs of useful load (common) and 89 or 102 gallons of fuel capacity, then you only have 466 or 388 lbs of fuel-full payload... lousy in my opinion.  The reality is that you might need to carry 100 gallons of fuel for 1 flight every 5-10 years?  

 

It is much more useful to think in terms of carrying a family of 2-4 people on a 500 NM trip to grandma's house, or whatever your typical trip might be.  That is something you might do regularly, so figure out how much your family + bags weigh, and how much fuel would be required to go there + reserves for a 252, Bravo or Ovation and see if it works.  With a totalizer you can depart knowing with confidence that you have 42 gallons or 58 gallons or whatever on board.   You can also do this with the old calibrated sticks for a fuel tank, but without a fuel flow/totalizer you won't know with certainty how much fuel you're burning and how close you might be cutting it.

 

You might eventually discover that an F or early J with 1025-1050 lbs of useful load can make a trip non-stop that a heavier and faster plane cannot.    I've done some trips with 4 folks + bags for 450-500 NM and launched with 44 gallons for example, because at 46 I'd be overgross.

[aviatoreb]

Let me add a bit of a twist to the discussion... comparing full-fuel payload across different makes or models is pointless in my opinion.  You need to think in terms of either how far you want to go, and/or how much you want to carry while doing so.  With modern fuel totalizer systems, there is no reason one couldn't take off with the exact amount of fuel required to complete a flight, so for example if you have a long body with only 1000 lbs of useful load (common) and 89 or 102 gallons of fuel capacity, then you only have 466 or 388 lbs of fuel-full payload... lousy in my opinion.  The reality is that you might need to carry 100 gallons of fuel for 1 flight every 5-10 years?  

 

It is much more useful to think in terms of carrying a family of 2-4 people on a 500 NM trip to grandma's house, or whatever your typical trip might be.  That is something you might do regularly, so figure out how much your family + bags weigh, and how much fuel would be required to go there + reserves for a 252, Bravo or Ovation and see if it works.  With a totalizer you can depart knowing with confidence that you have 42 gallons or 58 gallons or whatever on board.   You can also do this with the old calibrated sticks for a fuel tank, but without a fuel flow/totalizer you won't know with certainty how much fuel you're burning and how close you might be cutting it.

 

You might eventually discover that an F or early J with 1025-1050 lbs of useful load can make a trip non-stop that a heavier and faster plane cannot.    I've done some trips with 4 folks + bags for 450-500 NM and launched with 44 gallons for example, because at 46 I'd be overgross.

 

Quite right.  And in those terms I have a pig!

[Lood]

Don't know if it's the same over in the US, but here in South Africa, you don't always have the option to refuel on the other side.

I do a 580nm flight (return) to another farm, every 4 - 6 weeks. Although I do keep a drum of Avgas on that farm, just in case, I opt to only use it if really necessary, because it's a real challenge to get it there in the first place.

So, I need to carry my family, with bags, for at least 600nm and have the legal reserve when I land. My F suits this mission perfectly and while there are indeed two refueling options along the way, neither are along the direct route and the dogleg to refuel just doesn't make sense.

[ArtVandelay]

Don't know if it's the same over in the US, but here in South Africa, you don't always have the option to refuel on the other side.

I do a 580nm flight (return) to another farm, every 4 - 6 weeks. Although I do keep a drum of Avgas on that farm, just in case, I opt to only use it if really necessary, because it's a real challenge to get it there in the first place.

 

If you are storing gas for a long period of time, you should add some fuel stabilizer.

[ArtVandelay]

I like to hear some more details about how these long flight times were accomplished, I

don't plan on doing 12 hr flights times, but I might to stretch my flight times a bit.

[mike_elliott]

That's unreal. Wonder what his true air speed was ?

I think it was about 135. He flew it at 13K, 1900 RPM, fuel flow was about 6 something.  

[Hank]

Mike wrote up his NYC --> San Marcos flight here, last fall.

 

This is coast-to-coast in an E:  http://www.jonathanpaul.org/pdf/NonStop.pdf

 

It's a lot of information, but well written and a nice read. Pour a cold drink and click above . . . . .

[Marauder]

"Stinkypants" (snicker)

Indeed they were "stinky" when he was done with them... This picture was weeks after his "stinky" trip.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

It's hard to see the pants....

I can' t get past the big smile and the stinky C-shirt!

Ask Santa for some decent clothing if you have to.

Got to the Mooney Ambassador site or something.

Maybe a T with a TNIO550 on it????

-a-

[jwilkins]

I'm 165 lbs. My son is 180. We can carry 40# baggage and 6+ hours fuel in our K running LOP at 160TAS at 12K MSL and still be under gross.

 

I thought I would need LR tanks. I don't NEED them and usually only fill the mains. I LIKE having the LR tanks and will frequently put 90 to 100 gallons in when I'm by myself just because of the options it gives me to divert, in case the destination has a fueling problem, or I'm after hours on departure day. Having 3+ hours fuel on board at destination after a 4 hour flight doesn't allow me to get back home, but gives me a lot of options where I can go next.

 

If I were buying today I'd look for an Encore or Encore conversion to get the higher gross weight.

[BorealOne]

Utility of LR tanks varies with mission. In my case, they are essential. Most of my flights are in the North. Legs are typically 3h+, IFR alternates can be 2h+ away. 

 

Not every destination airport has 100LL. Not every destination airport even has fuel. What fuel can be found is often crazy expensive ($10/gallon and up) so it makes sense (and $) to ferry fuel from the south when possible. 

 

Folks with cheap fuel and plentiful airports may never need them, but they just about always make my flights possible.

[gsengle]

I've gone 6 hours in the Ovation.  With tailwinds, LOP, at maybe 9500 feet, leaned to 10 or 11 gph, with 89 'legal' gallons (you can squeeze a few more than that in around the filler necks) making 200kts over the ground, that's like Miami - Boston...

 

But the point I wanted to make is that (at least in my plane) the TKS system is included in the W&B assuming a full tank of fluid.  Meaning, that if you run around with an almost empty TKS tank in the summer, thats worth almost 50 lbs, getting my load up to nearly 1000lbs.

 

g

[Cris]

My Screamin Eagle 310 HP STC has a useful load of 1122 lbs.

Full tanks are 75 gals as certified, 89 Gals as STC'd or 100 gals with R supplement.

Mooney uses 5.82 lbs/gal

Thus "payload" for the above is 685.5 lbs, 604 Lbs and 540 Lbs. Respectively.

Take your choice but in the end payload is always a function of fuel load chosen.

[Guest]

I can put in 130 gallons of fuel and then put in 720 of people, and fly 6-7 hours at 190KTAS, a little longer at reduced power.

Clarence

[Cris]

I can put in 130 gallons of fuel and then put in 720 of people, and fly 6-7 hours at 190KTAS, a little longer at reduced power.

Clarence

Clarence I make this to mean you have a useful load of 1477 lbs! 130 gals x 5.82 lbs/gal = 756.6 + 720 lbs of people = 1477 lbs.

You can't be referring to a Mooney unless you are deliberately overloading it. What are you flying?