Avionics Upgrade

[robert7467]

I have a garmin 155 that came out of a buddies plane "free", anyone ever use this? Will it work if I add an autopilot? My VOR with the glidescope is reading about 4 degrees off, and I was thinking about replacing it with the 155.

 

The avionics guy quoted me 30 hrs to install this, and looking at the simplicity of the wiring harness, the 30 hrs seems a little off.

 

As far as an autopilot with alt hold, I was quoted $18,000.

 

Does this sound right?

 

As far as the airplane goes, the book on it is around $52k. We are real strict when it comes to maintnence, but I am kindof at this theory that I dont see alot of m20c's for sale over the $50k mark (even with a good panel, fresh paint, fresh interior) and I am thinking that I might not get a good ROI by painting, and investing a whole lot into avionics into this plane.

 

I can send the 155 into garmin, and I think its around $600 to get it checked out.

[Bob_Belville]

Robert, is it the IFR TSO version of the GPS 155 or the straight 155 which is a VFR unit?

 

When I redid my panel last Nov I sold the old GPS TSO IFR for $1000. It was in fine shape, the previous owner had upgraded to it from a VFR 155 a couple of years ago. It had been linked to a HSI and a STEC 50 AP.

 

I don't think I'd recommend spending money on checking out and installing that 1st generation GPS. A 696 handheld with a great moving map and other features would give you much more info for similar $$$ though it would not be certified IFR. When I had both I found the 696 to be much more useful and user friendly. The 155 is not all that intuitive to program and of course there's no map.

[robert7467]

I am looking at this for instrument rating purposes only, this is IFR certified, and we do have the HSI as well. As far as everything else we have a 496 with weather, and ipad. Its either I replace or repair the VOR, or replace it with the 155.

 

How is the 155? Is it a signifcant upgrade to a VOR? Is the checklist any good on it? Will it really take 30 hrs to install if there is no cutting on the panel?

[Bob_Belville]

Robert, I found the checklist to be too cumbersome to be of use. Are you proposing to use the 155 instead of any VOR receiver or for one of the normal 2 we have in an IFR panel? Will you still have a loc/glideslope receiver and head? The 155 certainly will allow IFR direct enroute (RNAV) which you won't have with VOR and you can also access all the RNAV/GPS approached if you subscribe to Jeppesen. 

[Bob_Belville]

Others may have better advice on the 30 hours but I will tell you that when Mike bought a 155 IFR and assumed it would be an easy swap out for the old 155 VFR since it was the same size he was sorely disappointed with the installation which took a longtime with several call backs and cost a lot more that he expected.  Tieing in to the A/P and HSI is apparently complicated.

[robert7467]

Thats what I am looking to replace with the VOR with Glidescope, I will still have the old navcomm unit... Or maybe I can get it repaired and replace the vor wiithout the glidescope.

[OR75]

I am NOT saying that 30 hours is excessive to install a GPS. But, 30 hours is a lot of money/time spent to end up with a basic IFR GPS when you will soon need a WAAS source.

 

my advice:

you can afford a WAAS GPS unit and make the jump (the install costs will be about the same)

 

you cannot afford a WAAS GPS at the moment and stay with what you have. Use a handheld or iPad for GPS map. 

 

A/P quote is about right (6-8amu per axis)

[robert7467]

Do you know what the most affordable IFR WAAS GPS is? If it has a screen bigger than a radio stack, then I will need to get a GPS navcomm, otherwise something like the 155 will fir perfectly in the available slot.

[RocketAviator]

Robert, first that you need to know while I have no dog in this fight(no benefit to me I don't get a commission or any form of compensation), I previously posted my experience with a Texas based Avionics shop by the name of Crystal Avionics.  Which by the way I traded in 2 Garmin 430 one WAAS and one not from my Mooney upgrade this last month.  I know John takes units in trade and tells me prefers to install them in other planes rather than resale them.  

 

With 2 planes under my belt of complete avionics upgrade I believe you are on the right track of not investing to much in avionics but as others have suggested get a good WAAS capable GPS... as one who fly a fair amount in IMC it is well worth it!!!!  I also like and use 2 yoke mounted GPS & IPAD with ilevil  Ahars in addition to a knee board tablet for complete backup... A little overkill maybe but the tablets and IPAD are cheap and the 696 came with the Mooney! 

 

While my current panel has the GTN750 & 650 with ADS-B, G500 with SVT I have flown for years without their many features built into a panel but in one form or another on the lower cost tablet / IPAD option!

 

I fly with and use Voyager, Xavion and have looked at other packages, all do a better job with than without anything!

[scottfromiowa]

I have a gnc300xl (not IFR certified) in my panel. I would sell the 155 and upgrade to a 650. Skip the 430. Install for 155 must include annunciator and nav head. Get the 650. You will regret install if the 155 in about a week...

[robert7467]

I am just looking at all the options, as I dont want to dump a fortune into avionics in this plane.

[robert7467]

$9,789.00

GTN 650 from Sarasota Avionics "install only"....

[BigTex]

If you don't want to invest in something relatively current, I'd forgo installing any additional avionics into your plane. A GPS and/or Auto Pilot are not required for IFR flight.

[robert7467]

Basically I dont want to invest in a $70k glass panel, when its not going to help bring up the value of the plane. I am at the point, do I replace the VOR, or do i make a slight upgrade in place of the VOR.

[RocketAviator]

$9,789.00

GTN 650 from Sarasota Avionics "install only"....

Just using my actual installed price I would recommend you contact John if you are serious about the GTN 650 his price was less for my 650 and it was an afterthought on my panel, I originally was going to leave the 430 WAAS in and at the last minute decided to go all the way with the 650!

 

By the way, just a off thread subject question, are you the same one Robert in the IMC in VFR thread?

[robert7467]

Thanks, just looking at it, it looks like it will have everything I need.

[Steve65E-NC]

Why fly around with a VOR 4 degrees off.  That is an easy adjustment.  Talk to your radio shop or ask around.

 

 

[Schinderhannes]

Considering the significant amount of money for the installation I would advise against the Garmin 155,  How much does your shop charge per hour? You might end up spending 2 to 3 times the value of the radio on the install.  On the other hand I think that investing 25%-50% of the ships value on an panel upgrade doesn't seem a sound financial decision either.  Trading the 155 for an 155XL might be an option to consider,  If you have a working positive control I would look at an Accutrac. One of the members offered a system recently and there is also one for sale on ebay right now. We use a GX60 to drive the accutrac and even and the setup is tracks very accurate, 

[mschmuff]

I think what is important here is that you said "I am looking at this for instrument rating purposes only".  What you are going to spend on installing a 155 that is completely obsolete and will bring absolutely no value to your plane you could rent a plane for a couple hours for the RNAV training and the checkride.....saving thousands!! (Doing all of the ILS and non-precision approach VOR/LOC training as well as basic instrument flying in your plane),    There are plenty of threads and articles in flying magazines about the cost of avionics upgrades Vs just buying a new plane.  Unless you absolutely love your plane and will keep it for the next 20 years.....don't put a WAAS GPS and an auto pilot in it - That's $25k you'll never see again!!

This is just my opinion!!

I'm literally in the middle of an avionics upgrade in my plane - 430W & GTX327. The only reason I am doing it is because I got a good deal on the avionics and I fly hard IFR over Washington DC and wanted WAAS capabilities as well as a new radio and transponder - things you REALLY NEED in DC.  I also plan on keeping this plane for the next 10 years........justifying the spend in my mind!!

Good luck!

[Jerry 5TJ]

In the search for reliability and modernity I removed all the old avionics and every scrap of 50 year old wiring and installed new.

I don't expect to recoup my 'investment' but I wanted reliable WAAS avionics.

The 530W, GTX327, A210, PM8000BT just about fills the small panel on the "C".

Can add ADS-B by 2020 if we're still flying her then.

A big step up from the single Narco that came with the plane on delivery in 1965.