What AoA indicators are available?

[OR75]

actually the airbags / seat belts is in the list

 

I am not certain that a voice annunciator would have saved this guy. he knew what part of the envelope he was operating in. 

[Bennett]

I had an AOA on my DOVA DV 1, but I could never get it calibrated to my satisfaction. Yes, I tried to do so a number of times following Dynon's instructions. Undoubtedly my fault, but I gave up on it as I had far too much other "stuff" to look at- especially when landing. She was so slippery in flight, and the stall speed so low and benign, that it would be difficult to get her into a normal stall/spin. Not impossible, but you would really have to be totally inept to do so. On the other hand, taking off with the flaps reflexed could be a huge problem. Some DOVA pilots tried bringing up their takeoff flaps as soon as the wheels were off the runway, passed through neutral, and went into reflex, which caused a considerable loss of lift at exactly the wrong time. In cruise reflexing the flaps was worth about 5 knots. I ended up developing a lock-out to prevent this, And i understand that the US manufacture/type holder adopted the lock-out,and made it standard.

I, too, really want air bags.

[aviatoreb]

actually the airbags / seat belts is in the list

 

I am not certain that a voice annunciator would have saved this guy. he knew what part of the envelope he was operating in. 

 

You do have it on your list!  I missed them on the first read.  Yes, I want those airbags - everybody write to the amsafe guys and tell them you want airbags - at least do it for me so I can get them...

 

We can agree to disagree that the AOA with voice annunciator would have helped this guy.  For me, sitting at my desk I will tell you that I will not try to turn back if it ever comes to that.  So there is my decision.  But if it ever does happen to me, in the heat of he moment - I hope and plan to follow my own advise made now in the comfort of my desk.  Now if I ever get sort of loopy for just that heat of the moment, and fixate on doing it anyway, maybe a voice annunciator reminding me of the imminent stall would be just enough to wake me out of delerious optimism that I could turn back?  All I am saying is that there are alot of guys trying to turn back and I am not ready to simply call them stupid.  I am also willing to look deep inside myself and consider if there might be a little bit of stupid inside of me willing to try and come out at just those moments.  Its the only way to try and beat it.  And so I still think a voice annunciator is a safety item for just such a moment.

[aviatoreb]

I, too, really want air bags.

 

Folks I have written a few times to Richard Heitzman trying to convince him to go forward with a J/K amsafe stc despite lackluster feedback from this forum.  As far as I can tell it will not happen unless the company gets more positive feedback.  Please write to him rheitzman@amsafe.com if you are at all interested and campaign - at least do it so that Erik can get the seatbelts.  Whether or not you think they are "worth it" I do.

 

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/8416-seatbelt-airbag-system-for-m20j-m20k/?hl=amsafe

 

I know I have diverted this thread - and I apologize - but I really want this and you guys need to participate if it will happen.

[M016576]

I'd say that if a pilot was maneuvrering at that speed, bank and weight, I would hope he knows he is nearing aircraft limitation without the need to look at an AOA and would not need to look at an AOA to see if he is 80% or 90% of lift.

I am not saying that an AOA does not bring supplemental safety info. I am saying that I can think dozens of features I could add in a plane to safety ...

backup gyro

backup battery

backup vacuum

backup GPS

handheld radio

AOA

Fuel totalizer

Engine monitor

safety belts / airbags

Autopilot

second engine

a chute

move to a jet

....

Valid point, but it's the only way to really know..., you are only guessing until you see your AOA.

Estimated weight. Estimated CG. Estimated speeds from a test pilot 30 years ago from a reference aircraft.

If you have a device that tells you your actual AOA, then you know, even without any of those other things above, what your absolute stall point is. No guessing, no estimating. The onset of an accelerated stall at a higher speed might not give the same cues as a power off or power on (unaccelerated) stall, depending on the airframe.

It's also handy for a precise approach speed indicator.

But we all have our own thoughts and priorities on this stuff. There are those that say "well, I was trained this way or that way, so that's got to be the right way." I admit it: I was trained with an AOA indicator from day one. I just feel like you're missing a critical piece of the puzzle without it. Can you fly safely without one? Yes. But you can fly safely without lots of things... Can you fly safely without an altimeter? Yes (day VFR). But if you fly IFR, you're going to want that altimeter! An AOA gauge is like that.. But for envelope boundaries. If you're heart of the envelope all the time, you shouldnt need it. if you flirt with the boundry ever, though, youll probably want one. You also get a better picture of what your aircraft is doing with an AOA gauge during heart of the envelope operations. Can it truly be replaced in the cockpit? no, just substituted for- and that's what we do every time we calculate our weight, calculate our CG, go to the tables and come up with a (probably somewhat inaccurate) approach airspeed. While some of us probably go through the tables every time we fly: I guarantee you some pilots don't even bother with a weight and balance... And an AOA gauge could go a long way towards keeping those pilots safe and aware of what their aircraft is doing...