Passenger on Rudder Pedal . . . during landing

[Seth]

I took a couple up on a flight this past Saturday.  The husband had asked me if I would take he and his wife flying (surprise for his wife).  She loved the flights and he enjoyed them as well.  We flew to another strip, landed, and flew back to my home base.  She sat in the co-pilot seat on the out and he sat in the co-pilot seat on the way back.  I guided them both through turns and basic controls so they could "fly."

 

As part of my passenger breifing, I always mention to my co-pilot to keep feet flat on the floor for takeoff and landing so there is no chance that their feet or any part of their body disrupts the takeoff or landing sequence.  Usually they are so scared about causing a crash it's a non issue.

 

Upon landing back at KGAI, we touched down and immediatly started skipping to the left, I was shocked as I though I might have a blown tire, I then got worried as my inputs weren't doing much to keep the plane from departing the runway into the grass.  Finally, all of a sudden, the plane swerved back to the center of the runway, and my passenger at that point appologized for "bracing on the left pedel" right at landing.  I did not realize how tense he was, and also relaized that I had given the more serious briefing about the foot pedels when his wife was in the co-pilot seat.  I actually took the experience quite well.  I had put more pressure on the right pedel and also put in right aileron as I wanted to get weight off the "bad" tire.  I was also considering a go around but figured it out the issue pretty quickly.  We chatted about it on the taxi back to the hanger.  He felt terrible.

 

Since then, I remembered the flip of the bi-plane at DCA when the reporter braced to take pictures during landing and applied full brakes, which flipped the airplane (video of it if you search).  I do not have brakes on the passenger side of my Mooney, but have considered getting them for safety so the co-pilot can brake if I'm incapacitated.  However, if there were brakes, for all I know we would have crashed on landing Saturday.

 

So, make sure your passengers are briefed not to touch controls even more so during takeoff and landing.  Also, before takeoff and landing, I'm adding to my checklist verify co-pilot off controls.

 

The poll above is multiple choice, so you can select as many inpust as you'd like.  Please tell and specific stories we can all learn from.

 

Happy flying.

 

-Seth

[Marauder]

I remember years ago flying safety pilot for a pilot who was working on her instrument rating in a Mooney. The Mooney did not have brakes on the right side. She had flown a VOR approach poorly to a short runway airport. After setting it down, I realized quickly she was not using the brakes at all! It was the only time I ever wished for brakes on the right side of a Mooney! (BTW -- me screaming was enough to get her out dazed phase and stop the plane). She told me she was trying to mentally figure out why the approach went so badly during the landing rollout...

[M20E-1964]

"Passenger's knees got in the way of the ailerons (right left yoke)"

 

This seems to happen with all passengers and yes, including several instructors.  It's never caused an issue, in fact, we usually uncover it during the runup checklist "flight controls free and correct".  Unless I'm doing steep turns in flight, it's never been an issue, but I have made "passenger free of controls" a check list item for landing.

[Oscar Avalle]

Good point. Thank you I will include this in my passenger brief too.

[FloridaMan]

This one looks like someone was standing on the rudder pedals. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scd4TWNGLhU 

[fantom]

Check for a flat spot on your tire, Seth. No good deed goes unpunished.

[BigTex]

Years ago I had a passenger in a J3 Cub have his left foot resting on the heel brake when we touched down.  The plane took a hard left and took off across a field.  Took everything I had in me to keep from ground looping the plane!

[thinwing]

I gave a helicopter ride to a very experienced pilot(fixed wing)he was very interested in the control forces on the bell 47 and asked to take the cyclic stick...ok says I its all yours just be gentle.Well he gets cyclic stick in hand and than does something you never ever ever do in a helicopter...he lets go of stick!!!!!With out his hand on stick the hydraulically boosted controls go into a negative pitch over...why we didnt get a boom strike right than an there I will never Know...real close to strumming harps that day..and when I asked why he let go of stick like that he said he does it in fixed wing a/c to test trim....

[Seth]

Check for a flat spot on your tire, Seth. No good deed goes unpunished.

Thanks for the suggestion Fantom.  I'll do that.  Can't believe I didn't think to.  I may have engaged the brake on the right side as we were going left.  I don't think I used the brake, but it was a "wild" ride left then right and back to centerline. 

 

As he relized the pressure was building, he released his left foot (from me adding pressure on the right side) and thus, the plane swerved back faster that I thought it would after no immediate correction with the pressure I originally put in (because he was blocking that pressure with his foot).

 

Funny, my former gilfriend was worreid about this when I flew with a cousin of mine.  He had the knee for full deflection left and right issue, but never put his feet on the rudder inputs.

 

"No good deed goes unpunished" is a common phrase in my family.

 

I'll check for flat spots.

 

-Seth

[Seth]

I gave a helicopter ride to a very experienced pilot(fixed wing)he was very interested in the control forces on the bell 47 and asked to take the cyclic stick...ok says I its all yours just be gentle.Well he gets cyclic stick in hand and than does something you never ever ever do in a helicopter...he lets go of stick!!!!!With out his hand on stick the hydraulically boosted controls go into a negative pitch over...why we didnt get a boom strike right than an there I will never Know...real close to strumming harps that day..and when I asked why he let go of stick like that he said he does it in fixed wing a/c to test trim....

 

Wow.  I did not know that about helicopters.  That must have been an eye opener.  Thank you for the knowledge.

[N201MKTurbo]

When my son was about 1 1/2 years old I took him flying. I had him in a car seat in the right seat. Just after rotation he put both feet on the yoke and pushed as hard as he could! That woke me right up!

[201er]

I like the last poll option. I don't think a single one of us hasn't had a passenger step on the aileron or try to slam the door no matter how hard we try!

 

As for the pedals, I never encountered a problem and usually let people rest their feet on them as long as I can override them.

 

But a foolproof solution for you to try Seth, is to slide their seat back to the last click and have the other passenger sit behind you while you slide up. Unless you're like 6ft4, it's impossible to reach the rudder pedals in a Mooney from the aft seat position!

[Alan Fox]

One thing Beech does is the right pedals can be disengaged and layed flat on the floor , and the yoke flipped over to one side , makes the passenger screwing up almost impossible......Almost......

[201er]

One thing Beech does is the right pedals can be disengaged and layed flat on the floor , and the yoke flipped over to one side , makes the passenger screwing up almost impossible......Almost......

Makes it damn hard to get instruction too

[Hank]

So far, I've not had a problem with passengers getting in the way of controls. So I can't vote, there's no option for "None."

 

I do tell everyone in the right seat to keep their feet off the pedals, and I point them out. But generally, if they slide the seat forward just to the catch and stop, most folks can't reach them, anyway. Then at runup, "Controls Free" is a chance to let them know about yoke motion, too.

[N601RX]

At some point, I think is was around mid 70's Mooney started making removable pedels. The linkage all stayed in place, there was just a single cross bolt to remove just below top of the leather boot and the pedal upright and toe bar would slide out. I know the 79's came this way, but I'm not exactly what year it started in.

[Alan Fox]

Makes it damn hard to get instruction too

My aircraft is not a trainer...

[Seth]

So far, I've not had a problem with passengers getting in the way of controls. So I can't vote, there's no option for "None."

 

I do tell everyone in the right seat to keep their feet off the pedals, and I point them out. But generally, if they slide the seat forward just to the catch and stop, most folks can't reach them, anyway. Then at runup, "Controls Free" is a chance to let them know about yoke motion, too.

 

You are correct Hank - I should have put a "none" section into the Poll.  I've also added a new Controls Free aspect to the checklist.  Not just controls free and clear, but also point out to the right seat passenger to keep the feet flat on the floor for takeoff and landing.

 

Usually the feet do not touch te pedals as the seat is pushed back, however, for this flight, I was showing the passengers how to fly and letting them make gentle climbs and turns.  So, they were in proper position for the foot pedals.  I'll tell you, that landing ride was a wakeup call.

 

-Seth

[Gone]

I am in the "it has not yet happened to me" category.  Never say never.  I too warn folks about the bad effects of messing with either the rudder pedals or the yolk.  One way to make it clear is to do the "full deflection and free" control check before the run up.  Passengers sitting in the right seat bumped by the yolk during this check become very conscious of where they put their feet and their knees.

[jlunseth]

I have had people hit the rudder while in cruise a couple of times.  It is a non-issue, very detectable when the plane slews.

 

The most interesting control issue I have experienced was not directly human.  My co-pilot on a prior flight had done a nice job of hanging her earphones on the right side yoke.  Too nice in fact.  She had wrapped the cord around the phones to keep the cord from dangling, which tethered the yokes to the panel by the headphone cord.  I found it when I did the control check prior to takeoff.  Only time the control check has come up with anything.

[BigTex]

I actually had a situation happen back in my aerobatic days when I went to box the stick in a Decathlon and the the stick stuck in the full up position.  Jumped out to see what occurred and found a wrench wedged in the elevator control linkage.  As it turns out a couple of flights prior to mine, the plane had an issue with the battery (located behind the back seat) left his wrench next to the battery.  So they guy that flew the plane before me was up practicing hammerheads and the wrench worked his way into the tail section... NOT a good thing!

[Wildhorsesracing]

We were giving free rides to children at an airport function. An 8yr old child during the flight grabbed the yoke pulling and pushing all the while squeezing the PTT and yelling "I wanna fly it! I wanna fly it!" - when on the ground his mother apologized that he didn't take his "meds" because she was worried he would get sick.

 

The other pilots had a good laugh afterwards as they all heard the screaming on the radio!

[FloridaMan]

We were giving free rides to children at an airport function. An 8yr old child during the flight grabbed the yoke pulling and pushing all the while squeezing the PTT and yelling "I wanna fly it! I wanna fly it!" - when on the ground his mother apologized that he didn't take his "meds" because she was worried he would get sick.

 

The other pilots had a good laugh afterwards as they all heard the screaming on the radio!

 

Holy crap. It's a good thing it was an 8 year old kid and not a 28 year old kid.