Engine Analyzer..JPI or what's your choice?

[TWinter]

Considering looking at a JPI Engine Analyzer. This might be an old topic, but my quick search did not show anything. I know many of you have them. What's your choice. I would be putting it in my 73 M20E (FI).

I see the unit cost on the various parts sites. I have looked at the install PDFs and there is not any mention of estimated "Install Hours". I know it all depends on your AP, but does anybody have an idea of the hours it took or cost for the install?. Any one unit better than another unit for the M20E?

Thanks in advance.

TW

[jetdriven]

I flew with a fellow Mooneyspacer who has a JPI-830 and it does everything, its easy to read, and if my engine monitor (1990s digital 1-at-a-time EGTor CHT,or FF) went bad, no question, i would get that.

[Seth]

Any engine monitor is better than no engine monitor. In August 2011, I added an JPI EDM 830 to my Mooney Missile and have been very pleased with it. The information is AMAZING and now when I fly airplanes without an engine monitor, I admit my mind starts playing tricks on me even though I flew for over 500 hours in my former F model without one.

If I had to do it again, I'd probably put the same 830 in there. However, I'm not sure which model it is but one is STCed to replace all your other gauges so if any of you other instrumentation fails, you won't have to repair it or even better, remove it and clean up your panel. The 730 is simply a different display but gives much of the same information. I love the RPM and Manifold Pressure display on my 830 as well as the fact that you can mount it horizontally or vertically depending on what makes sense to you. It is a very clean install and really looks nice as well.

If I were closer to TN I'd let you test it out first hand. I'll be down that way in May, and if you are anywhere near the Mid-Atlantic, let me know and you can see one first hand. I'm sure someone near you may have one to let you view it. Also, see if JPI will give you the Oshkosh discount. They did that for me even though the dicount had ended a few weeks prior.

Take care,

-Seth

[PilotDerek]

It's on my to do list. Right now I am leaning towards the Insight G3. It'll fit on the pilot side and I was able to play with it at the AOPA summit, I really liked how easy it was.

[TWinter]

Any engine monitor is better than no engine monitor. In August 2011, I added an JPI EDM 830 to my Mooney Missile and have been very pleased with it. The information is AMAZING and now when I fly airplanes without an engine monitor, I admit my mind starts playing tricks on me even though I flew for over 500 hours in my former F model without one.

If I had to do it again, I'd probably put the same 830 in there. However, I'm not sure which model it is but one is STCed to replace all your other gauges so if any of you other instrumentation fails, you won't have to repair it or even better, remove it and clean up your panel. The 730 is simply a different display but gives much of the same information. I love the RPM and Manifold Pressure display on my 830 as well as the fact that you can mount it horizontally or vertically depending on what makes sense to you. It is a very clean install and really looks nice as well.

If I were closer to TN I'd let you test it out first hand. I'll be down that way in May, and if you are anywhere near the Mid-Atlantic, let me know and you can see one first hand. I'm sure someone near you may have one to let you view it. Also, see if JPI will give you the Oshkosh discount. They did that for me even though the dicount had ended a few weeks prior.

Take care,

-Seth

Seth and Byron..thanks for the votes on 830. Looks like a nice unit. I may have to call my AP in the morning (I'll be sitting down while I do this, and get a approx cost to install). Seth pretty much hit my reasoning on head. What a great piece of mind plus that warm fuzzy feeling while flying of being able to see what's going on and where.

[Cruiser]

Fresh install should be around 15 - 20 hrs.

[BigTex]

I just had an EDM-700 with the oil temp option installed for $3,000 including the unit.

You'll need to evaluate what you're needing out of your monitor. Every one of JPI's monitors fit a particular need. So depending on what your objectives, you can't go wrong with any one of them.

[gregwatts]

I have the JPI 700 w/ Fuel Flow.....

Definitely recommend!

[Lood]

I have the JPI 700 w/ Fuel Flow.....

Definitely recommend!

+1.

I've been looking at the 830 as well, really nice and whenever I have a few buck lying around in future, I'll probably upgrade from my 700.

[danb35]

Give serious thought to a unit that's certified to replace your primary instruments. In the JPI line, I believe this would be the 900 or the 930; for EI you'd be looking at the MVP-50; and I don't know about Insight at all. I tend to prefer EI over JPI as a company, though the events that lead to that preference are several years in the past.

[N601RX]

I have the 830 and like it. The install isn't that hard assuming you have an empty space to put it. I put the one in my plane with supervision by my IA. The wiring harness is complete. You will need to buy or make up a couple of fuel lines and an oil line. Aditionally you will need to buy a red light to mount in front of you and a few AN fittings DG style clamps and a circuit breaker. Its a little agervating running the OAT sensor out to the wing depending on where you put it and figuring out the correct length an placement of the new fuel lines and transucer may take a little while.

I think JPI currently has rebates. They also offer good prices at Oshkosh and Sun-In-Fun.

[TWinter]

Thanks guys..I'll call and check on those rebates.

[Oscar Avalle]

I installed a JPI 830. I really love it.

[KSMooniac]

15-20 hours is a good estimate for the installation time. it is a lot of tedious work, but not necessarily complicated or difficult. If you like doing your own wrenching, this a great project to do yourself under supervision of course.

I have an EDM-700 with fuel flow that came with my plane, and it is a great unit. I'm looking ahead/planning to upgrade to an EDM-900 though, and remove all of my old legacy instruments as I'm now convinced these things are reliable enough to put all of my engine instrumentation eggs into one basket. The EDM-900 and -930 are more expensive, but you can really clean up an old panel and save some weight by going that route. Ditto for the EI MVP-50, Auracle, and I believe Insight has a similar product as well. You likely can't go wrong with any of them, so compare the features and instrument size as well as the layout/menu system and choose one that you like.

[scottfromiowa]

If all you want is an engine monitor get an Insight G1. You can always upgrade to a G3 later. The lien color info cylinder temp exhaust and depicted % Lien/rich are stone simple. For the price of a 930 or MVP you can get individual primary replacement EI gauges and redundancy of a G3. These will fit on an early M20. Good luck in your search/re-search.

Scott

[smccray]

I have a JPI830 and I've been happy with it. I looked at the 900, but it would have cost me an extra ~$1400 for the unit, and I would have had to redo the panel in order to make it fit. I was able to fit the 830 in the existing panel.

This comes up on Beechtalk periodically- John Dekin would tell you to install a JPI730 with fuel flow if budget is tight. These come up periodically used as people are upgrading their engine monitors. The hoskins transducer in my plane was the exact same transducer that was supplied with the JPI. If you need a transducer I'd sell the one that's in a box somewhere in my hangar. Scott may have a transducer and one or more probes from his salvage J.

[PilotDerek]

If all you want is an engine monitor get an Insight G1. You can always upgrade to a G3 later. The lien color info cylinder temp exhaust and depicted % Lien/rich are stone simple. For the price of a 930 or MVP you can get individual primary replacement EI gauges and redundancy of a G3. These will fit on an early M20. Good luck in your search/re-search.

Scott

I was looking at iInsight's website, specifically the G1 and it had this:

Warning – If you have a injected fuel system and planning or running lean of peak the G3 is a better choice because you get:

First To Last Color Lean boxes - White LOP, Cyan ROP

By How Many Degrees - Number in box

What Fuel Flow Was At Peak On Every Cylinder - On every EGT bar

EGT Variation Spectrum - In-flight exhaust valve analysis

Advanced Data Logging - Every second of every function on SD Card

-- Have you had any issues leaning? Do you run LOP? Just curious as I really want the G3 but can get by with the G1. There is a $2K price difference. Insight fits best in my panel without redoing the entire panel and it looks a lot better than the EDI 700.

[PilotDerek]

Double post.

[scottfromiowa]

I was looking at iInsight's website, specifically the G1 and it had this:

Warning – If you have a injected fuel system and planning or running lean of peak the G3 is a better choice because you get:

First To Last Color Lean boxes - White LOP, Cyan ROP

By How Many Degrees - Number in box

What Fuel Flow Was At Peak On Every Cylinder - On every EGT bar

EGT Variation Spectrum - In-flight exhaust valve analysis

Advanced Data Logging - Every second of every function on SD Card

-- Have you had any issues leaning? Do you run LOP? Just curious as I really want the G3 but can get by with the G1. There is a $2K price difference. Insight fits best in my panel without redoing the entire panel and it looks a lot better than the EDI 700.

Answers to above questions. No. Yes, since I purchased the plane and before I had a GEM 602 and then G3 installed. (500+ hours of operation LOP). Looks aside the Lean function in the Insight G series is outstanding. The G3 is better, but MORE expensive. Probes are the same. Install the G1 and then upgrade when you can afford a G3 with additional functions (fuel flow, Outside Temp, MP, Tach, Oil etc...THE G1 STILL provides an outstanding len feature...sans fuel flow which is NOT essential to obtain %LOP. You will have an excellent engine monitor that you will easily be able to sell/trade in for a G2 or G3 down the road. GET AN ENGINE MONITOR. You can buy a GEM 602 for next to nothing...SAME probes in G series...plug and play. Good luck!

[AmigOne]

Bought the JPI 450 fuel flow at a S&F special for about $400 and cost $600 to install and $150 at the avionics shop to connect to the Garmin panel GPS. For me this is a must have instrument, particularly when connected to a GPS. Bought the EDM700 during rebate time and installed the probes and routed the bundle of wires through the firewall (on an existing hole), then my mechanic cut the hole in the panel and connected and mounted the instrument and made the logbook entry. It is really easy to do, the only tool you need is a drill and a sharp bit to mount the EGT probes, the CHT probes screw into the cylinder heads with a piggy back (sold separately) if you want to keep the factory CHT operational. I do not have oil pressure/ oil temp probes but I can add these later. It took me about 6 hours at a leisurely pace and 2 hrs to my mechanic. Since panel room is not an issue on the right side, I kind of like separate gauges so I don't have to toggle or wait for the scan. Both info are always there.

[Hector]

If anyone is upgrading and wants to sell their EDM700 let me know. I already have FPI 450. I plan to remove it and replace it with the EDM700. Should be a simple install since the hard part (fuel flow sensor installation) is already done. Just need to add CHT and EGT probes.

[fantom]

I've got a like new one available next month, Hector.

[Hector]

I've got a like new one available next month, Hector.

By all means let me know Gary. That is perfect timing for me as well

[TWinter]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. Just quick update..Decided on the EDM830. Will be installed within the next few weeks. Install of the JPI unit along with a small "to do list" while there. Install rear head-set jacks, new wing-tip strobes, replace one fuel drain valve on left wing (sticking open after sampling), lay in a nice set of new Aero Comfort carpet and mats and lastly the install new Aero Comfort leather seats and some upholstery trim I've had waiting in my garage for the next trip to shop. Christmas is GOOD this year. If anybody needs a nice set of front seats (cloth..re-upholstered according to logs in 97) or mats from 73/74 M20E let me know. I'll post pics in the "for sale" section after I get them out. These are front seats w/ headrests only. The rear I had recovered. Color can be seen in my photos. Kind of light tan. No tears or rips. Email at tpwinter@bellsouth.net if interested. Like I said, it will be a few weeks before they are taken out. Thanks again for all the input. TW

[Lrn2Fly]

I installed the JPI-930 in my 'E' model a couple of years ago, and have only good things to say about it. My primary engine/systems gauges were in pitiful condition. I could not tell how much fuel was in the tanks. Oil temp & pressure were unreliable. Manual tach was off by 100 rpm's, etc etc.

The full story of the -930 installation is on my web page: www.Lrn2Fly.US

Downloading the data after each flight has been worth the expense alone, and has identified a few lurking problems, the most notable being a fluctuating charge rate due to bad wiring to the alternator. Knowing the temps of the EGT/CHT's, fuel flow, and miles per gallon (when interfaced with your GPS) are all great reasons to upgrade your panel. My installation involved a pretty extensive panel overhaul, so it was more expensive than others, but everytime I hop into my plane, I love what I see.

I have done many test flights of airplanes with newly equipped JPI-830's as well, and I can say that they are awesome tool, as long as you are able to keep your existing gauges. Just remember that those existing gauges are still your primary source of information, and if they don't work, technically the airplane may not be airworthy, although that determination is beyond my pay grade! This was the driving force behind my decision to go with the -930, since my gauges were junk.

Sam

CFI, CFII, MEI, KSRQ test pilot