Help me price my plane.

[AndyFromCB]

All airplanes, boats, cars, etc are worth vRef minus 20%. It's as simple as that. That's what they are worth to a bank or a wholeseller. I took it up my butt pretty good when I sold my Arrow, the nicest damn Arrow in the whole country and I expected it. First buyer who offered vRef minus 20% without any attached BS owned it, I even delivered. All and all, took about 3 hours of my time. Actually, I rejected a ton of offers for and over vRef, they all came with strings attached. My time is not worth it.

When I bought the Bravo, I offered vRef minus 20%, bought it on the spot few minutes later. So far I put another 70K into it. If I ever get $165K for it, after investing over $200K, I'll be a happy guy. vRef says 200K, so likely, if I ever sell it it will be for $160K. All the time and effort making it perfect doesn't mean a thing to a seller. They will find another $40K worth of things wrong with it. We all know it's not that hard in this business.

Enjoy it while you own it, dump it when you can't afford or want something bigger. Time, hangar costs, insurance, etc all costs money too.

[johnggreen]

Astelmaszek,

Well Bud, you finally told the absolute truth.  I just didn't have the heart as I seem to make enemies on this site like a horny rabbit.

That is exactly why I don't expect to sell my Bravo.

Jgreen

[AndyFromCB]

Quote: ad8n

[AndyFromCB]

Quote: johnggreen

Astelmaszek,

Well Bud, you finally told the absolute truth.  I just didn't have the heart as I seem to make enemies on this site like a horny rabbit.

That is exactly why I don't expect to sell my Bravo.

Jgreen

[johnggreen]

Andy,

Well, you are probably right, but,

Believe it or not, after 32 airplanes, i really like the Bravo.  I don't really know why, but I've gotten "attached" to it and that is coming from a pilot with NO brand loyalty (which I'm sure I've said several times before).  That being said, I can give a very accurate, I think, evaluation of the Bravo vs. just about anything; I've owned them all !

Truth be told, my "need" for a larger airplane hasn't fully manifested itself yet.  Children getting out of school and settling far away (and that is happening fast) is changing when we go, where we go, and what we need to carry along.    First grandchild is now on the ground and in DC, but hopefully the others will be coming before I get too old to enjoy them or teach them how to hit a baseball/softball.  As of next May, I will have no college tuitions for the first time since 1997 and needless to say, that alone will pay for a very nice airplane.

I'm wandering, but the point is that the Bravo still fulfills it's mission beautifully 90% of the time.  That percentage is sure to fall as the future unwinds.  A couple more times of needing four or five seats and baggage room and the useful load to go with it, and I'm sure I'll get more motivated.

As for Karen retiring, fat chance.  She will manage every penny as long has her soft sweet hands can hold a bank statement.

But thanks for the support !!

I think i will go ahead and list the Bravo even though my motivation is weak for now.  And yes, I have decided what I am going to buy, but I'm not telling; not here or on the Beech site.

Jgreen

[jwilkins]

Quote: allsmiles

This line of thinking is faulty in my opinion and it precisely illustrates the problem. The seller can and should unilaterally set the sale price that is fair to him. And yes, be willing to hold on to the plane. You are not necessarily asking more than it's worth just because no one is coming forth. 

[Cruiser]

I think Doc has a point though. If the seller holds firm to a "price" and all sellers hold firm to a "price" the market will adjust to this selling price because there will be demand for a product that is not available at a lower price. Allsmiles example of Lycoming engines setting selling prices was a good example. You pay the asking price or you don't get the product. Garmin is another excellent example of the seller getting the asking price. If aircraft owners would act like businesses, then the prices would go up because there would be no bargaining the seller down "just alittle more" .

Today if an owner wants to sell, they check the market for a feel of what the asking prices are on the public advertising sites, and adjust their price according to plus/minuses of the individual product for sale always trying to find a unique item that sets their plane apart. But the starting price is in the "ballpark" of other similar airplanes. Buyers look at the same info and negotiate for something less. But in reality the price range has already been set by the advertising prices for these planes. What allsmiles is saying is if sellers hold firm the actual selling price will go up. Problem is there is always someone that will take a little less than the other guy.

[PTK]

Quote: Cruiser

I think Doc has a point though. If the seller holds firm to a "price" and all sellers hold firm to a "price" the market will adjust to this selling price because there will be demand for a product that is not available at a lower price. Allsmiles example of Lycoming engines setting selling prices was a good example. You pay the asking price or you don't get the product. Garmin is another excellent example of the seller getting the asking price. If aircraft owners would act like businesses, then the prices would go up because there would be no bargaining the seller down "just alittle more" .

Today if an owner wants to sell, they check the market for a feel of what the asking prices are on the public advertising sites, and adjust their price according to plus/minuses of the individual product for sale always trying to find a unique item that sets their plane apart. But the starting price is in the "ballpark" of other similar airplanes. Buyers look at the same info and negotiate for something less. But in reality the price range has already been set by the advertising prices for these planes. What allsmiles is saying is if sellers hold firm the actual selling price will go up. Problem is there is always someone that will take a little less than the other guy.

[jwilkins]

Quote: "Why is this so difficult for some to comprehend is beyond me! "

Probably because it is wishful thinking, or just trolling for reactions. This is a free market and every seller has the right to decide to hold on a high asking price, or set an asking price which reflects the current market conditions and has some reasonable probability of selling. 

If prices were fixed by the government and penalities were established for selling either higher or lower than the government established 'standard cost' THEN you could 'set' prices.

Since, thankfully, every owner has the right to set the asking price in accordance with their own desire to complete a sale, the sale prices will fluctuate according to the overall supply and demand; up and down. Setting an asking price significantly higher than the present market will bear in order to attempt to manipulate the perception of value is a fantasy. 

I suggest as a proof of his theory that Doc immediately convince all dentists to double all the procedure costs and not perform any services for which patients and insurance companies will not pay the higher rates. If all dentists cooperate and the insurance companies increase their reimbursement rates, or all the patients pay the difference I will publically apologize for not understanding that our theories of Free Market economics studied and taught for the last 100 years were wrong.

This goes both ways. I bought a 1962 C model well below the vref valuation (but later spent almost as much on avionics as I paid for the plane). When I bought  my 67 F I was searching for a plane which someone else had done the avionics and cosmetic upgrades. I had friends tell me that I was insane for spending that much on a '67 F.  I decided it was valued properly for me. It was an absolutely wonderful plane and I have no regrets about what I paid for it. The sales prices in both cases were not anywhere near a base model vref evaluation would indicate. The sale prices were established by the seller, the buyers perception of value, and the economy at the time. Price fixing does not work in our used aircraft market. Anyone who wants  to try it is welcome to set any asking price they want, but the real value is not what the seller thinks; it is what a buyer will pay. 

Why is this so difficult for some to comprehend is beyond me!