LasarAviation Posted January 6 Report Posted January 6 Mooney Assurance: Greetings all, This is to inform all interested parties that the Mooney Assurance Program has been discontinued and is no longer in effect. All subscriber funds were held in a non-interest-bearing account and have been refunded in full to the individuals concerned. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Brett Stokes and John Smoker CEO, COO — LASAR Inc. 1 3
1980Mooney Posted January 10 Report Posted January 10 (edited) If Mooney, in whatever parts distribution arrangement they have with LASAR, is not generating enough revenue to cover 1) variable cash costs, 2) the cost of real depreciation (real wear and tear of plant/machinery/tools) and 3) some meager return on the current cash investment (working capital) then they need to: Ruthlessly Cut Costs Aggressively Raise Prices Some combination of Both If they (Mooney/LASAR?) need to double or triple the price of Mooney built parts in order to survive, then they need to raise prices. The market will adapt. Mooneys will be scrapped and salvaged more frequently for what had been a repairable FUBAR in the past. Owners will seek out and rely more on salvaged parts. Owners will rely more upon OPP. Yes there will be more downtime for repairs while people scramble for parts, Yes the cost of owning a Mooney will go up, BUT the market will find equilibrium and Mooney will survive as a parts only business. Everyone acts like raising Mooney parts prices is the end of the world. But look at how Mooney owners react to other rising (some would say crazy) costs: In another topic right now there are Mooney owners that have no qualms about doing some combination or all of full avionics upgrades, MT props, EarthX batteries etc. (i.e about $100K) to gain a few pounds of UL. In another current topic, an owner of a 1961 M20B is looking at spending about $17K+ (and 2 year wait) to reseal 52 gal. fuel tanks. No-one is complaining. Everyone raves about "value". In a 2023 topic, an owner of a Bravo suggested it was realistic to budget about $120k for everything that needed to be done during a Lycoming Factory Rebuild. Of course the cost will be higher in 2026.... In a topic last year to a new pilot about a "new Mooney purchase" it was advised to plan on $75-$100K for avionics, $20K for strip and paint (probably low..), $10-15K for "interior refresh"., etc. No-one was complaining. Owners love to brag about the "value" of spending $80K++ on avionics/autopilot. The point is that you rarely see a post saying "These costs and prices are ridiculous. I am selling my Mooney and getting out of GA because I cannot stomach these eyewatering escalating costs". An exception is the unfortunate fatal crash of N79338 whose 2-owners ago in 2024 said here on MS, "I have neither the time nor the money to take care of 79338 at the moment." @Schllc, in a current Modern Mooney Discussion topic on "LASAR Prices" made the case that LASAR is sincerely trying to keep Mooney parts sales afloat, albeit the "Assurance" plan was "clumsy" and "convoluted". That is why I say that Mooney and LASAR should just keep it straightforward and charge the prices that they need to remain solvent and that "the market will bear". The market will seek equilibrium. It won't be the end of Mooney ownership. Higher parts prices may lure more suppliers like Univair to reverse engineer some parts. It is "capitalism" at work. Edited January 10 by 1980Mooney 5 2
Marc_B Posted January 10 Report Posted January 10 I gather that with Mooney not manufacturing any aircraft that the amount of Mooney parts being requested from the factory is not high enough to support the factory in itself. The economy of scale with outside vendors doesn't work well when you only need 2 rod end bearings for a single order and not 5000. I think that is the hurdle. Mooney parts needs to be a parts vendor for more than Mooney, needs to have multiple contracts from other vendors, and needs to have constant flow of business outside of Mooney parts. McFarlane, Univair, Aircraft Spruce...can you imagine if they only supported parts for a single aircraft manufacturer? Not sure the status of this with Mooney these days... Not sure what it would take to have Mooney parts produced and licensed at another production facility and if that would even work? (for some parts, maybe yes, for others maybe not). Not sure what it would take to have other aircraft manufactured at Mooney factory? What would it take to have Mooney set up as a builder assist site for homebuilt/experimentals? What would it take to have Mooney poised as THE Mooney salvage and repair facility in the nation? Any chance that Mooney could purchase salvage and make it work to pump out "refurbished" Mooneys for sale...or at least be the leading company to sell salvage parts for Mooneys? Basically my thought is that if the only focus for Mooney/Lasar is to produce Mooney parts, there may not be enough revenue stream at ANY price. 1
Justin Schmidt Posted January 10 Report Posted January 10 The best thing would be to have the drawings/engineering data available to owners to make opp. 2
Yetti Posted January 10 Report Posted January 10 1 hour ago, Justin Schmidt said: The best thing would be to have the drawings/engineering data available to owners to make opp. I have always said the value of Mooney is the templates and jigs. How cool would it be to fly to Kerrville help make your new control surface and then fly it home. Some enterprising people would probably do it for others... Heck some people would probably like to do a 50% Mooney quick factory build. Back to the topic I don't call the parts warehouse when I need a part. I call my friendly MSC. I never could wrap my brain around the proposed parts warehouse membership model. 1
PT20J Posted January 10 Report Posted January 10 There is a model for this. Cal Pacific Airmotive owns the type and production certificates for the P-51 and TF-51 and is also an FAA repair station. They do a good business servicing the warbird community. Need a part for your P-51? They can supply it or make it if they need to. Need your P-51 rebuilt or converted to a TF-51? They can do it. They have been doing this successfully for two generations. But, having once had the experience of trying to resurrect a failing business, I know that the financial overhang from previous operations can present an insurmountable cash drain. 8
Yetti Posted January 10 Report Posted January 10 1 hour ago, PT20J said: But, having once had the experience of trying to resurrect a failing business, I know that the financial overhang from previous operations can present an insurmountable cash drain. Bingo. It's like the old guy with the airplane that is going to fly one day. At this point he has a bunch of aluminum cans with an engine hanging on it, but thinks it will fly again one day. Fantasy vs. Reality 1
DCarlton Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 12 hours ago, PT20J said: There is a model for this. Cal Pacific Airmotive owns the type and production certificates for the P-51 and TF-51 and is also an FAA repair station. They do a good business servicing the warbird community. Need a part for your P-51? They can supply it or make it if they need to. Need your P-51 rebuilt or converted to a TF-51? They can do it. They have been doing this successfully for two generations. But, having once had the experience of trying to resurrect a failing business, I know that the financial overhang from previous operations can present an insurmountable cash drain. Seems like I remember a company offering completely reconditioned or rebuilt Pipers a few years ago. Almost like new. Combine that with salvage operations, parts manufacturing and sales, and timely maintenance under one roof and you’d think it could work. Here it is: https://www.premieraircraft.com/inventory/piper-dakota-restoration-program/#about
Echo Posted Sunday at 03:51 PM Report Posted Sunday at 03:51 PM On 1/6/2026 at 6:50 PM, LasarAviation said: Mooney Assurance: Greetings all, This is to inform all interested parties that the Mooney Assurance Program has been discontinued and is no longer in effect. All subscriber funds were held in a non-interest-bearing account and have been refunded in full to the individuals concerned. Thank you for your attention to this matter. Brett Stokes and John Smoker CEO, COO — LASAR Inc. Glad to see that. What is your business model with “Mooney” going forward? What is the strategy to support the fleet of vintage Mooney aircraft?
Echo Posted Sunday at 04:11 PM Report Posted Sunday at 04:11 PM 10 hours ago, DCarlton said: Seems like I remember a company offering completely reconditioned or rebuilt Pipers a few years ago. Almost like new. Combine that with salvage operations, parts manufacturing and sales, and timely maintenance under one roof and you’d think it could work. Here it is: https://www.premieraircraft.com/inventory/piper-dakota-restoration-program/#about You looking for a completely reconditioned Mooney or are you, like me, looking for parts that are on the shelf and available to purchase with a price clearly communicated. NOT a hey get 50 other owners send in your part and we will get you a part in six, 12, 18 months for (insert $)…
Echo Posted Sunday at 04:20 PM Report Posted Sunday at 04:20 PM 22 hours ago, Yetti said: I have always said the value of Mooney is the templates and jigs. How cool would it be to fly to Kerrville help make your new control surface and then fly it home. Some enterprising people would probably do it for others... Heck some people would probably like to do a 50% Mooney quick factory build. Back to the topic I don't call the parts warehouse when I need a part. I call my friendly MSC. I never could wrap my brain around the proposed parts warehouse membership model. Meh. I don’t want to fly to Texas. Why do that? I have an A&P that is a 15 minute flight away that I have a 20+ year relationship. One piece belly, gear donuts, actuators, door stops, heater junctions, nose gear truss’s and linkage. Wear parts…
Echo Posted Sunday at 04:26 PM Report Posted Sunday at 04:26 PM The point is that you rarely see a post saying "These costs and prices are ridiculous-1980 I constantly complain about price vs. value and constantly discuss buying used/salvage as a sound viable option to keep my Mooney flying and NOT an endless Mooneypit. 1
Echo Posted Sunday at 04:32 PM Report Posted Sunday at 04:32 PM 21 hours ago, PT20J said: There is a model for this. Cal Pacific Airmotive owns the type and production certificates for the P-51 and TF-51 and is also an FAA repair station. They do a good business servicing the warbird community. Need a part for your P-51? They can supply it or make it if they need to. Need your P-51 rebuilt or converted to a TF-51? They can do it. They have been doing this successfully for two generations. But, having once had the experience of trying to resurrect a failing business, I know that the financial overhang from previous operations can present an insurmountable cash drain. Multi million dollar airframes (like 50 flying in U.S.?) with multi millionaire owners flying and servicing. NOT the vintage Mooney owner model.
Echo Posted Sunday at 04:33 PM Report Posted Sunday at 04:33 PM 20 hours ago, Yetti said: Bingo. It's like the old guy with the airplane that is going to fly one day. At this point he has a bunch of aluminum cans with an engine hanging on it, but thinks it will fly again one day. Fantasy vs. Reality And he owns it and lives his fantasy. Good for him.
Jackk Posted Sunday at 04:48 PM Report Posted Sunday at 04:48 PM It’s amazing how some folks spend super big bucks. Was reading a few months ago about a guy who had a flat, no doubt just the garbage tubes we are flooded with in recent years. Well he called a mechanic and paid like $400 or so to get it fixed… I’m thinking hmm, $60 tube, worse case buy and return some basic tools from Wally World or autozone, 30min or so of my time, done. Same with how much people pay for interior work, someone says it’s “aviation” and do sub par work for $$$, vs just taking the seats out yourself, buying some materials, take it all down to the local upholstery shop Aviation is one industry where understanding time and value, rolling up one’s sleeves, and not getting sold by salesmen, pays off the largest. 3 1
Echo Posted Sunday at 05:25 PM Report Posted Sunday at 05:25 PM 33 minutes ago, Jackk said: It’s amazing how some folks spend super big bucks. Was reading a few months ago about a guy who had a flat, no doubt just the garbage tubes we are flooded with in recent years. Well he called a mechanic and paid like $400 or so to get it fixed… I’m thinking hmm, $60 tube, worse case buy and return some basic tools from Wally World or autozone, 30min or so of my time, done. Same with how much people pay for interior work, someone says it’s “aviation” and do sub par work for $$$, vs just taking the seats out yourself, buying some materials, take it all down to the local upholstery shop Aviation is one industry where understanding time and value, rolling up one’s sleeves, and not getting sold by salesmen, pays off the largest. Yes. A rich man’s game. I replaced windows and interior on first Mooney. Parts can be sourced for WAY less than many pay. The rich and certified nature of Mooney creates a tough, but NOT insurmountable environment for CB’s. 2
1980Mooney Posted Sunday at 06:03 PM Report Posted Sunday at 06:03 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, Jackk said: It’s amazing how some folks spend super big bucks. Was reading a few months ago about a guy who had a flat, no doubt just the garbage tubes we are flooded with in recent years. Well he called a mechanic and paid like $400 or so to get it fixed… I’m thinking hmm, $60 tube, worse case buy and return some basic tools from Wally World or autozone, 30min or so of my time, done. “no doubt the garbage tubes”. Tires with inner tubes on what?…An aircraft tire? Tractor? Motorcycle? Old split rim truck tire? Antique car? How far did they have to travel to the vehicle? Did it have to be towed? The guy might have gotten a bargain to get it fixed facts be known. “worse case buy and return some basic tools from Wally World or autozone,” You advocate to Buy tools, Use them on a project and then Return them for full price? Seriously? Edited Sunday at 06:07 PM by 1980Mooney
PT20J Posted Sunday at 06:09 PM Report Posted Sunday at 06:09 PM Well if you only pay $60 for an aircraft tube, it probably is garbage 1
Marc_B Posted Sunday at 06:10 PM Report Posted Sunday at 06:10 PM The best way for an aircraft owner to curtail costs is to be actively involved in maintenance of their aircraft, 100%. But a HUGE component of rising costs is the shrinking size of general aviation and GA manufacturing. The economy of scale has dramatically shrunk in most aspects of general aviation...avionics being an outlier that has seen increasing technological growth driving higher costs. Peak production of aircraft were seen in the late 70's (i.e. Cessna producing over 5000 aircraft per year!). vs even now Cirrus is only making 500-600 aircraft total per year. The issue isn't that "folks spend super big bucks" and it's driving up a CB's costs...it's that fewer and fewer parts, aircraft, maintainers, etc exist and the economy of scale is shrinking. The folks that treat their aircraft like showroom pieces likely help more than they hurt. 2
Jackk Posted Sunday at 06:16 PM Report Posted Sunday at 06:16 PM 7 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said: “no doubt the garbage tubes”. Tires with inner tubes on what?…An aircraft tire? Tractor? Motorcycle? Old split rim truck tire? Antique car? How far did they have to travel to the vehicle? Did it have to be towed? The guy might have gotten a bargain to get it fixed facts be known. “worse case buy and return some basic tools from Wally World or autozone,” You advocate to Buy tools, Use them on a project and then Return them for full price? Seriously? What was the tube on? It’s a aircraft forum, think about it for a minute lol I don’t really have any respect for Walmart, so yes, seriously Im not going to lie about it, return them say I don’t need them anymore, obvious they have been lightly used, and it’s on Walmart if they want to take them back, since they don’t pay their workers enough to care, 99% of the time they just process the return, if they don’t care, why should anyone else? 5 minutes ago, PT20J said: Well if you only pay $60 for an aircraft tube, it probably is garbage Depends on the size
Marc_B Posted Sunday at 06:22 PM Report Posted Sunday at 06:22 PM Perfect example...Precise Flight speed brakes. The return springs can be purchased from Century Spring for $12 each with a minimum order of 1000 springs. Or you can send in your speed brakes to Precise Flight for service for $1000 each. How many things on our Mooney's were sourced from outside vendors and have a significant minimum order to even produce one complete item. How many "minimum orders" would be enough stock for the next 3-5 years or more (i.e. sell two items and have 100 on the shelf for 5 years)?? The money isn't made on the inventory, but rather the sales. You need more owners purchasing, more aircraft produced and sold, and more parts sold. Not sure how this is a CB vs showroom issue, other than the CB upset that shrinking demand leads to massively inflated pricing. Even Skunk Works at Lockheed would see this with the development of aircraft that were multi-million dollar projects that needed small volume pieces produced by outside vendors. It's a HUGE efficiency cost to interrupt the factory for small volume runs that can't be widely used outside of the small market they are produced for. 1 1
1980Mooney Posted Sunday at 06:27 PM Report Posted Sunday at 06:27 PM 16 minutes ago, PT20J said: Well if you only pay $60 for an aircraft tube, it probably is garbage 9 minutes ago, Jackk said: Depends on the size No facts. Guy may have gotten a bargain.
toto Posted Sunday at 06:34 PM Report Posted Sunday at 06:34 PM 17 minutes ago, Jackk said: What was the tube on? It’s a aircraft forum, think about it for a minute lol I don’t really have any respect for Walmart, so yes, seriously Im not going to lie about it, return them say I don’t need them anymore, obvious they have been lightly used, and it’s on Walmart if they want to take them back, since they don’t pay their workers enough to care, 99% of the time they just process the return, if they don’t care, why should anyone else? Depends on the size A lot of auto parts stores will rent specialty tools for very little money - some will even take a deposit and refund the full amount on return. 2
MikeOH Posted Sunday at 07:03 PM Report Posted Sunday at 07:03 PM 27 minutes ago, toto said: A lot of auto parts stores will rent specialty tools for very little money - some will even take a deposit and refund the full amount on return. Exactly. Here in California, Autozone tool 'borrowing' is completely free; just have to put down a fully refundable credit card deposit. Have done this many times. 1
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