Mooney Assurance Update

[Jackk]

51 minutes ago, IvanP said:

Absolutely. Use-and-return is a scam and it only causes prices to go up for everyone. If someone does not like a particular retailer, for whatever reason, they should just shop elsewhere, but not cause deliberate harm that will affect all consumers, not just the retailer. Sad to see that members of Mooney community would engage in such dishonest conduct. 

 Yet it doesn’t 

 Tons of people do this with that garbage corp and I have not seen a price hike on anything over the decades I’ve been around, probably because all the junk they sell is so cheaply made they have a great margin, plus having the US taxpayer subsidize most of their work force, it’s no factor 

 

 

 And you need to know the meaning of words, scam??  No,  Im 100% clear as to what I’m doing when I return their chinese tools, I used no deceit, not trying to make anything look unopened etc, I’m simply asking if I can return used tools I used because I don’t need then anymore, that’s 100% true,  if the workers is like “ok” well that’s not a scam as much as your workers simply don’t care about your business for…gee..not sure what reason lol

 

 But ultimately if they had to raise prices due to returns because Walmart doesn’t pay their employees enough to care or have pride in their employer, and eventually prices got to a point where no one bought Walmart junk and Walmart went out of business, Oh well file it under FAFO

Edited Monday at 06:12 PM by Jackk

[Echo]

2 hours ago, SilentT said:

As a colorblinded person it was a joke, man getting that medical restriction removed was a pain in the ass

Mine is a long story. Restriction doesn’t matter to me as I don’t fly little Buddy Holly planes at night. 

[201Mooniac]

2 hours ago, SilentT said:

As a colorblinded person it was a joke, man getting that medical restriction removed was a pain in the ass

I'm color blind as well and had no issue at all getting the SODA, I went to the FSDO at SJC and the inspector pointed me at the tower and said they will show you a red light, then a green light, then a white light, tell me what colors they are.  Red, green, white.  Okay, you pass. 

[Jackk]

20 minutes ago, Echo said:

Mine is a long story. Restriction doesn’t matter to me as I don’t fly little Buddy Holly planes at night. 

 Doesn’t the restriction apply to any plane regardless of size?

Basically no night flight, and I think it also takes out IFR options too? 

 

19 minutes ago, 201Mooniac said:

I'm color blind as well and had no issue at all getting the SODA, I went to the FSDO at SJC and the inspector pointed me at the tower and said they will show you a red light, then a green light, then a white light, tell me what colors they are.  Red, green, white.  Okay, you pass. 

 I wonder if more people will need to go SODA with the new digital color vision testing

 

https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/item52/amd

[N201MKTurbo]

A couple of years ago I lost my SODA paper and asked my AME about getting a replacement. He said they don’t do SODAs anymore. An hour latter I got an E-mail from Oak City with a LOE attached. I didn’t think the FAA could do anything that fast. I don’t know what he did or who he knew, but he got it done. I have a second class with the LOE, so it looks like I’m good with the new rules.

[Paul Thomas]

3 hours ago, Jackk said:

 Yet it doesn’t 

 Tons of people do this with that garbage corp and I have not seen a price hike on anything over the decades I’ve been around, probably because all the junk they sell is so cheaply made they have a great margin, plus having the US taxpayer subsidize most of their work force, it’s no factor 

 

 

 And you need to know the meaning of words, scam??  No,  Im 100% clear as to what I’m doing when I return their chinese tools, I used no deceit, not trying to make anything look unopened etc, I’m simply asking if I can return used tools I used because I don’t need then anymore, that’s 100% true,  if the workers is like “ok” well that’s not a scam as much as your workers simply don’t care about your business for…gee..not sure what reason lol

 

 But ultimately if they had to raise prices due to returns because Walmart doesn’t pay their employees enough to care or have pride in their employer, and eventually prices got to a point where no one bought Walmart junk and Walmart went out of business, Oh well file it under FAFO

You can't justify your behavior, your actions, your thoughts by speaking poorly about the company whose policy you abuse. This is about you, not them.

Trying to rationalize by "not needing it anymore" to fit their policy is B.S. The policy is meant for people who buy something with the intent to keep it and realize they don't need it. It's not meant for people to "rent" their tool; that's not the business they are in and you know it. While it wouldn't meet the common legal definition of theft, I think most people do view it as theft.

We all know that some people with low morals violate the social contract to their advantage... advertising it to others/defending the behavior when called out on it take it to a whole other level.

Just donate the tools to the airport, EAA chapter, etc if you don't want to take them home. Be a good person. Be an example.

[Jackk]

3 hours ago, Paul Thomas said:

You can't justify your behavior, your actions, your thoughts by speaking poorly about the company whose policy you abuse. This is about you, not them.

Trying to rationalize by "not needing it anymore" to fit their policy is B.S. The policy is meant for people who buy something with the intent to keep it and realize they don't need it. It's not meant for people to "rent" their tool; that's not the business they are in and you know it. While it wouldn't meet the common legal definition of theft, I think most people do view it as theft.

We all know that some people with low morals violate the social contract to their advantage... advertising it to others/defending the behavior when called out on it take it to a whole other level.

Just donate the tools to the airport, EAA chapter, etc if you don't want to take them home. Be a good person. Be an example.

 Justify?  
 
  Uhh yeah I wasn’t looking for the interwebz reaffirmation lol 

 

 If I can save myself money and safely cost a blight on America society money, that’s a win.

 

A company who has their workers pay low and purposly part time so they end up needed to collect food stamps (paid for by us) while they also sell them garbage food for said food stamps, at a profit no less, F Walmart with a cactus 

 
 Not sorry if I offended any Walmart simps…didn’t even know there were walmart simps before this topic, so learned something lol

Edited Tuesday at 01:09 AM by Jackk

[EricJ]

"Borrowing" tools from retailers and returning them when you're done is PROMOTED BY MANY RETAILERS.    I've done it many times, and they encourage it.   People who "buy" the tool and return it when they're done typically buy the related parts at the store, so it's a win-win.   I've done it many times for specialty tools that I didn't want to purchase without buying any parts from the store at the time, and they're fine with it.

Don't judge. 

https://www.autozone.com/lp/loan-a-tool

https://www.oreillyauto.com/store-services/rental-tools

Most parts retailers do this, I just posted the above links because they were easy to pull up.   I've done this at NAPA and other places as well.

It's normal and very commonly done.   They like it when you use the program.

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, EricJ said:

"Borrowing" tools from retailers and returning them when you're done is PROMOTED BY MANY RETAILERS.    I've done it many times, and they encourage it.   People who "buy" the tool and return it when they're done typically buy the related parts at the store, so it's a win-win.   I've done it many times for specialty tools that I didn't want to purchase without buying any parts from the store at the time, and they're fine with it.

Don't judge. 

https://www.autozone.com/lp/loan-a-tool

https://www.oreillyauto.com/store-services/rental-tools

Most parts retailers do this, I just posted the above links because they were easy to pull up.   I've done this at NAPA and other places as well.

It's normal and very commonly done.   They like it when you use the program.

Uh, just to be clear, I've done the same thing with those RENTAL programs.  As you say, those programs are PROMOTED!

That is not what is being debated. What is in question is if going to a store, say Walmart, and actually purchasing a tool, taking it home and using it, then going back to Walmart and getting your money back after using it.

[Jackk]

8 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Uh, just to be clear, I've done the same thing with those RENTAL programs.  As you say, those programs are PROMOTED!

That is not what is being debated. What is in question is if going to a store, say Walmart, and actually purchasing a tool, taking it home and using it, then going back to Walmart and getting your money back after using it.

Those are also a great option

[EricJ]

10 hours ago, MikeOH said:

That is not what is being debated. What is in question is if going to a store, say Walmart, and actually purchasing a tool, taking it home and using it, then going back to Walmart and getting your money back after using it.

That's exactly how those programs work.    If you don't want to return it, just keep it.   I've done that, too.

 

[MikeOH]

8 minutes ago, EricJ said:

That's exactly how those programs work.    If you don't want to return it, just keep it.   I've done that, too.

 

I guess I'm not being clear.  We are not talking about KEEPING a tool from a rental program where they just take your deposit as the purchase price.

The 'discussion' has been about going to a regular store (WITHOUT a rental program) and BUYING a tool.  Taking it home, using it once, and then going back to the store, returning it, and getting your money back because you NEVER INTENDED to keep the tool.

[redbaron1982]

2 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

The 'discussion' has been about going to a regular store (WITHOUT a rental program) and BUYING a tool.  Taking it home, using it once, and then going back to the store, returning it, and getting your money back because you NEVER INTENDED to keep the tool.

This behavior sounds so much like how people would behave in the country I was born. That's why back there return policies are non existent, or super strict + they charge a restocking fee.

People abusing the system like this will make the "no questions asked" returns go away. In fact, is already happening: starting last year home depot reduce the return window on gas generators and other products to just 7 days, and the product must be unused and in its original, sealed, package.

I'm going to stop here, otherwise this will become a politics post.

[EricJ]

8 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

I guess I'm not being clear.  We are not talking about KEEPING a tool from a rental program where they just take your deposit as the purchase price.

The 'discussion' has been about going to a regular store (WITHOUT a rental program) and BUYING a tool.  Taking it home, using it once, and then going back to the store, returning it, and getting your money back because you NEVER INTENDED to keep the tool.

The stores that do this are regular stores.    Auto Zone, OReilly's, NAPA, etc., etc., etc.   The condemnations previously posted to how horrible people must be to use these programs didn't seem to make any exceptions about where it was occuring.

[1980Mooney]

14 minutes ago, EricJ said:

That's exactly how those programs work.    If you don't want to return it, just keep it.   I've done that, too.
 

Not "exactly".  The "Load A Tool" program consists of specific tools, likely already used, that get loaned with a deposit to cover the cost if you do not return,  It is not intended to be taking new tools off the shelf, removing/ cutting off packaging (many times "tamper proof" hard plastic) and then returning them used, dirty and greasy, packages taped back up (or NOT) and put on the shelf to be sold as "NEW". 

[MikeOH]

15 minutes ago, EricJ said:

The stores that do this are regular stores

Do what, exactly?  All kinds of stores MAY offer rental programs, e.g. Autozone and all the ones you specifically listed.

That is NOT what we are talking about.

[MikeOH]

@EricJ

Here's an example of what we are talking about:

Guy wants to have his buddies over to watch the Super bowl but his TV is too small.  So, he heads over to Walmart and BUYS a 100" big screen, takes it home and he and his buddies watch the game. Next day he takes it back for a refund.  Now, the store CANNOT sell it as new; open box special is probably the best they can do.  But, hey, this guy doesn't care about that.

[N201MKTurbo]

My son used to work at Home Depot. People would bring dead water heaters in for a refund.

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Do what, exactly?  All kinds of stores MAY offer rental programs, e.g. Autozone and all the ones you specifically listed.

That is NOT what we are talking about.

NOW people are saying that.   There were posts making blanket criticisms of people using tools and returning them.   I was just pointing out that that is completely normal behavior in many cases, and I cited some examples.    Then the goalpost seemed to move...
 
Several electronics retailers used to have return policies for large electronics like TVs that were good for years of ownership.   They stopped that after people kept taking them up on it, i.e., returning year-old or older TVs, and then buying a new one.    There was a lot of criticism of people who did that, but it was a policy created by, offered by, and documented by the retailers.   The retailers sometimes train the behavior that happens.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, redbaron1982 said:

This behavior sounds so much like how people would behave in the country I was born. That's why back there return policies are non existent, or super strict + they charge a restocking fee.

People abusing the system like this will make the "no questions asked" returns go away. In fact, is already happening: starting last year home depot reduce the return window on gas generators and other products to just 7 days, and the product must be unused and in its original, sealed, package.

I'm going to stop here, otherwise this will become a politics post.

I ordered a $1500 stove from Home Depot a couple years ago, with ~6week delivery window. Then I bought some LED can light replacements, and tried to return the extra light ($9), but I'd had it too long (a couple or three months). Then I bought a $250 tiller, and the 2nd time I tried to use it, it wouldn't start, so back to HD I went, to exchange it on a nicer model. But their return window had changed to 30 days, and by the time I reached the store with the tiller, it was Day #31, and I was stuck with the toller.

On my way out of the parking lot, I called HD (stove delivery was scheduled for just a couple of days later) and canceled the order. And I called Visa to make sure I got the refund. Can't risk $1500 on a 30-day policy. Ordered it from a real appliance store, with a real warranty and return policy, just had to wait through the delivery window again.

When stores change policies, expect consumers to change shopping habits.

[LANCECASPER]

NOW people are saying that.   There were posts making blanket criticisms of people using tools and returning them.   I was just pointing out that that is completely normal behavior in many cases, and I cited some examples.    Then the goalpost seemed to move...
 
Several electronics retailers used to have return policies for large electronics like TVs that were good for years of ownership.   They stopped that after people kept taking them up on it, i.e., returning year-old or older TVs, and then buying a new one.    There was a lot of criticism of people who did that, but it was a policy created by, offered by, and documented by the retailers.   The retailers sometimes train the behavior that happens.

AutoZone has had that loan-a-tool program for years since it sells a lot of parts for them. It makes good business sense.

Completely different than what the person was suggesting be done at Walmart, where they don’t have that program that helps them sell auto parts.

[1980Mooney]

I just waiting for someone here to say that have the same "buy - use - return for full refund" attitude with shoes, underwear, toothpaste and toilet paper......

[N201MKTurbo]

The AutoZone by my house has a bunch of tools for loan. If you need a loaner tool that is not in their pool of loaner tools, they will tell you to go grab it off the shelf and buy it. Then you can return it and it is added to the pool of loaner tools. If you want to borrow a tool with consumables like honing stones, you are responsible for them. If the loaner hone has worn out stones, you have to buy new ones. I have used the service many times.

[N201MKTurbo]

3 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

I just waiting for someone here to say that have the same "buy - use - return for full refund" attitude with shoes, underwear, toothpaste and toilet paper......

I have known women who have bought evening dresses for an event and returned them afterwards. I thought they were all crooks.

[Schllc]

I would suggest that everyone knows where the line is between taking advantage of a business and following policy. 
this is where the moral line lays. 
some people’s conscience will permit them to cross  over the line and others will not. 
I tend to err on the side of not buying with the explicit purpose of using and returning for one simple reason. 
When I was 6, I lived next to a Cracker Barrel which at the time was a convenience store. 
I stole some candy and when my father saw me with it, and  asked me where it came from. 
When I told him, he brought me back to the store and made me tell every single person in that store that I took the candy and to apologize to them. 
While humiliation was probably too advanced for a child that young, I knew what I did was very wrong, and that impression was indelible.

I think about it every time I get close to my line and it still to this day prevents me from crossing. 
I’m not saying where the line is, that’s for each of us to decide for ourselves, but I’m willing to bet if all answered honestly it doesn’t vary that much.