M20J Forced Landing near KSPZ

[Mooney in Oz]

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/563705

Strong winds reported at the closest wx station. Coupled with the engine failure, it would have been a frightening experience.

It looks like the Mooney strong cabin structure has saved lives again.

 

https://mynews4.com/news/local/gallery/multiple-agencies-respond-to-incident-near-silver-springs-airport-in-lyon-county?photo=1

 

[IvanP]

That looks ugly. Hope all occupants will recover from the injuries. 

[DCarlton]

6 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said:

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/563705

Strong winds reported at the closest wx station. Coupled with the engine failure, it would have been a frightening experience.

It looks like the Mooney strong cabin structure has saved lives again.

 

https://mynews4.com/news/local/gallery/multiple-agencies-respond-to-incident-near-silver-springs-airport-in-lyon-county?photo=1

 

That's why I like my doors on the side too.  Just can't bring myself to consider a tip-up or sliding canopy as much fun as they may be...  

[skykrawler]

Curious phrasing......'attempted forced landing.'      If you fail the attempt do you go around?

[Yetti]

that's an impressive amount of force to rip off a wing at the root.    Hopefully they recover.            We have the same struts at our fire department.    Pretty sure one would have stabilized just fine.   

[kortopates]

The pictures sure leave you wondering what happened and what was going on! Gear was up but can't really tell about flap position and the prop sure is pretty twisted looking like maybe it had some power. The really good news is that everybody survived, even the dog with a broken rib. So eventually we'll be able to read the pilots personal account of what happened in the NTSB report. And eventually the pilot will likely get a new plane. 

[flyboy0681]

One of the reports stated "non-life-threatening injuries", so hopefully the steel cage kept them safe. 

The serial number is a few off from mine, it's very sobering to see something like this happen.

[kortopates]

One of the reports stated "non-life-threatening injuries", so hopefully the steel cage kept them safe. 
The serial number is a few off from mine, it's very sobering to see something like this happen.

The steel cage is what keeps the cockpit from crushing but not what keeps you safe. It’s your seat belts with shoulder harness that prevents your body from slamming into the panel and glareshield and causing fatal blunt force trauma.
I lost a nice fellow Mooney pilot and mechanic on my field years ago from a fatal crash. Looking at the wreckage you wouldn’t even think it would get totaled it was so intact. But not the occupants sadly - 2 souls lost.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hank]

36 minutes ago, kortopates said:

The steel cage is what keeps the cockpit from crushing but not what keeps you safe. It’s your seat belts with shoulder harness that prevents your body from slamming into the panel and glareshield and causing fatal blunt force trauma.

It's actually a combination of the two. Belts keep you upright in the seat so you don't bounce off the panel or yoke, and the steel cage.keeps the panel and sidewalls from crushing you while you are belted to the seat.

This second factor is what many planes are missing, and for which I am very happy. If the cockpit doesn't collapse on me, I have a fighting chance.

[Aaviationist]

13 hours ago, Hank said:

It's actually a combination of the two. Belts keep you upright in the seat so you don't bounce off the panel or yoke, and the steel cage.keeps the panel and sidewalls from crushing you while you are belted to the seat.

This second factor is what many planes are missing, and for which I am very happy. If the cockpit doesn't collapse on me, I have a fighting chance.

I don’t know of a single airplane where the cockpit “collapses”. but I do know of MANY accidents where the tight cabin and single door prevented extraction in the post crash fire causing fatalities in an otherwise perfectly survivable accident. At least a few a year, one most recently in a Mooney. 
 

a google search comes up with nothing as well. 
 

every airplane, especially certified, is designed with a cabin that doesn’t collapse. 
 

personally I’d be more worried about climbing over seats in a cramped cabin trying to get out of the single passenger side door than the “cockpit collapsing on me”

 

 

Edited December 20, 2025 by Aaviationist

[flyboy0681]

24 minutes ago, Aaviationist said:

I don’t know of a single airplane where the cockpit “collapses”. but I do know of MANY accidents where the tight cabin and single door prevented extraction in the post crash fire causing fatalities in an otherwise perfectly survivable accident. At least a few a year, one most recently in a Mooney. 
 

a google search comes up with nothing as well. 
 

every airplane, especially certified, is designed with a cabin that doesn’t collapse. 
 

personally I’d be more worried about climbing over seats in a cramped cabin trying to get out of the single passenger side door than the “cockpit collapsing on me”

 

 

“Crushed” returns a lot of results. 

[Aaviationist]

37 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

“Crushed” returns a lot of results. 

I don’t see it. Show me one accident where the cabin was crushed and killed the occupant in an otherwise survivable accident. 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Aaviationist said:

I don’t see it. Show me one accident where the cabin was crushed and killed the occupant in an otherwise survivable accident. 

I remember a slow motion video of a cirrus hitting the concrete beside a hangar in a steep, banked descent, and the thing just shattered into smithereens. Lots of Cessnas with the nose pushed up, back and sideways, or flipped upside down and crushed. 

[Aaviationist]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

I remember a slow motion video of a cirrus hitting the concrete beside a hangar in a steep, banked descent, and the thing just shattered into smithereens. Lots of Cessnas with the nose pushed up, back and sideways, or flipped upside down and crushed. 

You think that was an otherwise survivable crash!?  I’ve seen cirrus flipped over without shattering. 
 

I have never seen an accident report where the cause of death was a Cessna cabin crushing the occupant. 
 

again, point me to even just ONE accident where otherwise survivable, the integrity of the cabin was the difference between living and not. 
 

[EricJ]

10 minutes ago, Aaviationist said:

again, point me to even just ONE accident where otherwise survivable, the integrity of the cabin was the difference between living and not. 
 

When Vince Neil's Learjet crashed at Scottsdale Airport last February there was only one fatality, and it was the pilot due to his side of the cockpit getting crushed by the aircraft that they hit on the ramp.   It was a clearly survivable crash otherwise.   All others on board survived.

This is not an isolated example.

[skykrawler]

Survivability is not discrete, there is a range.   In this accident, two survived.  The instructor was killed and the student the more injured.

 

[Aaviationist]

That’s a blunt force. Not a result of the cabin crumpling. Would have taken out most any Mooney pilot as well. 
 

just like this one. 
 

 

The Learjet crash was also a high speed impact. That Learjet cabin is built better than the Mooneys, I promise you that. So in the world of bad examples, that’s a bad example. No airplane, money or otherwise would the pilot have survived that impact. 
 

we’re talking about the difference of life and death being the cabin collapsed on someone. Not blunt force. Even in that image the Cessna cabin did not collapse and still looks mostly in tact after a head on collision with a ditch. 

Edited December 20, 2025 by Aaviationist

[Thedude]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

I remember a slow motion video of a cirrus hitting the concrete beside a hangar in a steep, banked descent, and the thing just shattered into smithereens. Lots of Cessnas with the nose pushed up, back and sideways, or flipped upside down and crushed. 

Ya that makes me remember over a decade and a half ago I went up with a cirrus sales rep because they were at the airport (I was like 20, not gonna buy anything) and did all the maneuvers to see what the plane was like, flew great, felt very safe. Couple weeks later I was flying back from Vegas with 3 adults in a 172 and could not get the plane to descend to land (updrafts gave us 1k fpm climb with full power out). I heard the next day the same sales pilot had the plane just north over the mountains with big downdrafts and crashed and the photos showed nothing but an engine and what looked like melted plastic scattered everywhere. A full cage probably wouldn't have helped, but it was a pretty striking image to see nothing really left.

[Aaviationist]

59 minutes ago, Thedude said:

Ya that makes me remember over a decade and a half ago I went up with a cirrus sales rep because they were at the airport (I was like 20, not gonna buy anything) and did all the maneuvers to see what the plane was like, flew great, felt very safe. Couple weeks later I was flying back from Vegas with 3 adults in a 172 and could not get the plane to descend to land (updrafts gave us 1k fpm climb with full power out). I heard the next day the same sales pilot had the plane just north over the mountains with big downdrafts and crashed and the photos showed nothing but an engine and what looked like melted plastic scattered everywhere. A full cage probably wouldn't have helped, but it was a pretty striking image to see nothing really left.

It’s actually very similar with aluminum which has a low melting point. There is usually very little left. 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Aaviationist said:

It’s actually very similar with aluminum which has a low melting point. There is usually very little left. 

Aluminum crumples when hit and melts when burned. Composite shatters into splinters when hit hard.

[Thedude]

Here's the accident I was thinking of, no photos though

 

https://planecrashmap.com/plane/ca/N254SR/

[EricJ]

16 hours ago, Aaviationist said:

That’s a blunt force. Not a result of the cabin crumpling. Would have taken out most any Mooney pilot as well.

I think the blunt force was the result of the cabin intrusion.    I think you're moving the goalposts.

[Yetti]

This one looks like it slid along the belly for awhile and then flipped over at one point.    wing was ripped off by one of the dirt piles.

 

Early this morning we had an F150 try to achieve orbit, but was stopped by a wooden electric pole.      Looks like fell asleep road turned, traveled in a ditch for about an 1/8 of mile.   Probably had cruise control on and used a culvert for the launch pad.    Was at least 25 feet in the air when hit the poll.    Hitting the poll started the reentry phase.     air bags did their job. 

[Aaviationist]

8 hours ago, EricJ said:

I think the blunt force was the result of the cabin intrusion.    I think you're moving the goalposts.

No, the cockpit was mostly still in tact and did not collapse. The cause of death was multiple blunt force trauma - his head bounced around…

 

I'm familiar with this accident and the people involved. 
 

this is not an example of what’s being discussed. There is no amount of steel cage that will stop someone’s head from bouncing off it. 
 

asking for an example of a cockpit collapse and getting a learner ramming another jet from behind is not “moving the goalposts post” for anyone rational. 
 

the request was from an accident where the cockpit collapse was the difference between life and death which was CLEARLY not the case here. 

Edited December 22, 2025 by Aaviationist

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, Aaviationist said:

No, the cockpit was mostly still in tact and did not collapse. The cause of death was multiple blunt force trauma - his head bounced around…

You are incorrect.

1 hour ago, Aaviationist said:

I'm familiar with this accident and the people involved. 

The copilot was also seriously injured and there were delays in extracting him due to the damage to the cockpit area.   The cockpit was not "mostly still intact" as can be seen here.