Garmin Pilot disappointment

[McMooney]

6 hours ago, toto said:

If you’re asking about the OnePak, it’s a pretty good deal relative to having separate subscriptions for each unit. It costs about the same for my whole panel as it used to cost for just my 696 if I had all of the databases on rolling subscription. I’ve never had a OnePak with Jepp charts though, so I’m not sure what nuance might exist there.

Now that Garmin has SmartCharts on GP, I’m hoping never to look at an old paper plate-style chart again

 

yeah, i hope to never use a paper plate again, ever.  

my problem, garmin doesn't supply nav data for the gns480, only source is jepp.   

 if they've stopped the discount on  gp,  there's no reason i shouldn't go back to jepp and get databases for everything @ approx the same price

Edited December 14, 2025 by McMooney

[Ethan]

I too stopped using Foreflight. Now I only use GP. I had both before and really much preferred FF for planning and GP for flying. Since getting rid of FF, I have saved some money and have real begun learning to work with GP for planning. It's still inferior, but it works. I wish, like FF, you could put the surface analysis on the charts map, and wish that you could access airport NOTAMS from the map.

I have never logged on FF and just started logging on GP. I also keep a separate paper logbook because, I always have. I love that I can log hobbs time, tach time, fuel remaining after last flight etc. When I can't remember if I need to get fuel, or if an AD is coming due, I just check the log book. 

 

[Jackk]

18 hours ago, McMooney said:

CSV's can be tough, extra spaces, incorrect field delimiters, line delimiters,  field order,  blah blah blah, it's NOT easy.  if i remember correctly ff and garmin both let you pick the fields to export, meaning you may have something which looks nothing like what's expected.   it's not trivial.  Best i can usually do, give the user a specification and say do this or pay me to import it for you.

Thinking, if you gave up after 30mins due to some understandable CSV import issue, you had probably already decided GP wasn't for you

 All they have to do is hammer out import from the format, Garmin puts out, wing x, log ten pro, military, and the hand few of programs the airlines use

 

 But if they were to choose one, Garmin would be the one

 Seems like a obvious project for their team, make it easier to take other EFBs customers 

Edited December 14, 2025 by Jackk

[PeteMc]

5 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

The only real legal issue for the logbook owner is, as you mention, the validity of endorsement signatures. But even that would depend on whether there was some reason to question it. 

The US Government, per the Paperwork Elimination Act (1998) started accepting Scans as a legal replacement of the original document.  Later when E-Signatures started becoming more common, the  Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce (E-Sign) Act came out in 2000.  The E-Sign Act is what made it possible for a CFI(I) to sign your ForeFlight Logbook entry from their iPad while sitting at home. 

Bottom line, your scans of your old Logbook entries are totally fine.  So if you ever happen to be in a situation you need to show your old Logbooks and the person questions the scans for validity, go find a different person to deal with. 

(Not an Attorney, so if I'm wrong on this I hope one will speak up to clarify/correct me.)

[Jackk]

2 hours ago, Ethan said:

I too stopped using Foreflight. Now I only use GP. I had both before and really much preferred FF for planning and GP for flying. Since getting rid of FF, I have saved some money and have real begun learning to work with GP for planning. It's still inferior, but it works. I wish, like FF, you could put the surface analysis on the charts map, and wish that you could access airport NOTAMS from the map.

I have never logged on FF and just started logging on GP. I also keep a separate paper logbook because, I always have. I love that I can log hobbs time, tach time, fuel remaining after last flight etc. When I can't remember if I need to get fuel, or if an AD is coming due, I just check the log book. 

 

One of the benefits of FF is you just hit record when you start engines, record after and it fills almost all of it out for you 

[midlifeflyer]

11 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

The US Government, per the Paperwork Elimination Act (1998) started accepting Scans as a legal replacement of the original document.  Later when E-Signatures started becoming more common, the  Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce (E-Sign) Act came out in 2000.  The E-Sign Act is what made it possible for a CFI(I) to sign your ForeFlight Logbook entry from their iPad while sitting at home. 

Bottom line, your scans of your old Logbook entries are totally fine.  So if you ever happen to be in a situation you need to show your old Logbooks and the person questions the scans for validity, go find a different person to deal with. 

(Not an Attorney, so if I'm wrong on this I hope one will speak up to clarify/correct me.)

You are not wrong about the legal environment. I was working in that area when ESIGN and some similar state laws were enacted and what was to be Article 2B of the Uniform Commercial Code was being discussed. (it eventually got incorporated into Article 2).

But there are still requirements which govern acceptability in certain situations. There is a basic difference between something I sign and send somewhere as opposed to saying that someone else signed something. But beyond that, there are differences between a scanned signature (think update to the old rubber stamp signatures) and an electronic or digital signature).  The Foreflight logbook (and other eLog) is not not just signing with a stylus. It's also creating a record which will invalidate the signature if it record is tampered with. When you move into the area of digital signatures for things like real estate transfers, you get an additional layer where the signer is being vetted as really being the person they say they are.  You see a little of that with eLogbooks - when you sign a lesson or endorsement remotely, you are logged in to your own user account, which provides some verification that the signer is who they say they are. 

The bottom line is that any signature, digital or not, is subject to being challenged for authenticity.  Some are more susceptible than others.

[toto]

53 minutes ago, Jackk said:

One of the benefits of FF is you just hit record when you start engines, record after and it fills almost all of it out for you 

GP does the same thing, but it uses ground speed to start the log if you don’t start it manually. I always have every flight logged from the time the key is turned and EIS data starts flowing. 

[Jackk]

1 minute ago, toto said:

GP does the same thing, but it uses ground speed to start the log if you don’t start it manually. I always have every flight logged from the time the key is turned and EIS data starts flowing. 

 Foreflight can do the same, but I prefer manual activation too 

[Schllc]

57 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

The bottom line is that any signature, digital or not, is subject to being challenged for authenticity.  Some are more susceptible than others.

One would think that what one thinks of the veracity is irrelevant, as long as the owner of the logbook has not falsified records.  
Also, for Mooney type flying,  very little chance any of our logbooks are ever going to be scrutinized unless we are in an accident. Even then, as long as the owner hasn’t lied, and is current, it’s a moot point. 
 

I started flying earnestly long after most of you guys, and I started off with ForeFlight logbook, so I don’t even have a paper one and never did. 

[Jackk]

^that 

 

 I have had an electronic log book for a LONG time, my first log (paper) was scanned and uploaded into FF.  This has worked for 135 interviews /121 interviews/135&121type ratings/insurance etc 

 

 In many ways a digital endorsement though FF is much more secure than a ink abd paper scribble, much easier to forge a scribble than break into my FF account and send a endorsement 

 

 But real world you have to do something really dumb to attract the type of attention for someone to challenge your endorsements 

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, Schllc said:

One would think that what one thinks of the veracity is irrelevant, as long as the owner of the logbook has not falsified records.  

Veracity is always relevant, but you’ve stated the practical issue in a nutshell. No reason to challenge = nothing to worry about. 

PS. I’ve probably been using a eLog as my sole logbook  longer than you  Although, maybe not since, being media neutral, after 2016, I continued using paper for endorsements by CFIs who were still uncomfortable with electronic signatures. My last paper signature was 3 years later.

[Schllc]

Didn’t mean to say that veracity is irrelevant.  Veracity is all that matters!

I said what one “thinks” about the veracity, is irrelevant. 
But only if it is true!

What I mean is if one were to transcribe all the entries from a paper log and didn’t have signatures of the entries in the elog, as long as they actually happened and were valid, what someone “did thinks” doesn’t matter. 
 

[donkaye, MCFI]

10 hours ago, Ethan said:

I wish, like FF, you could put the surface analysis on the charts map, and wish that you could access airport NOTAMS from the map.

Recently GP added Graphical NOTAMS to the Airport Smart Chart Page.  Just tap the button in the lower right hand corner.

I like to manipulate my data in numerous ways including sorts and selections, so many years ago designed a flight log through a database management program called 4D.  I, therefore use both a physical log and electronic one.

I pay for both FF and GP.  As a flight instructor, FF has previously given a 33% discount.  I don't know what the future holds in that regard, though.  FF is so immense that I don't know half of what it can do.  I do like the 3D functionality that it provides.  But overall I do like the interface of GP, since it mimics all of my other avionics.  And I REALLY like Smart Charts and use it all the time now.  While FF flight planning might be more comprehensive, GP provides adequate information and makes it very easy to file as opposed to the extra steps required to file in FF.  If weather get complicated enough, whether it's FF or GP, I call Flight Service for an in depth analysis.

Since I've be using GP since the beginning and it's the one I'm most familiar with, it's my program of choice.  Probably those who use FF would say the same.

[N201MKTurbo]

My ForeFlight can piss further than your GP. And I dare you to say otherwise.

[McMooney]

smh

[Will.iam]

Damn, yall kicked out of the CB club for sure! When i changed companies and had to give my ipad back that they had FF on it. i only took 1 day to realize flight plan go for Zero dollars, although clunky, functionally works and i pay nothing for it securing me in the CB club in the efb department. 

[toto]

6 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Damn, yall kicked out of the CB club for sure! When i changed companies and had to give my ipad back that they had FF on it. i only took 1 day to realize flight plan go for Zero dollars, although clunky, functionally works and i pay nothing for it securing me in the CB club in the efb department. 

Since FltPlanGO is now a Garmin product, it also interfaces with Garmin panel units - so you can get ADS-B traffic and weather from a GTX etc. 

[midlifeflyer]

6 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Damn, yall kicked out of the CB club for sure! When i changed companies and had to give my ipad back that they had FF on it. i only took 1 day to realize flight plan go for Zero dollars, although clunky, functionally works and i pay nothing for it securing me in the CB club in the efb department. 

I’ve always had a copy of Go! on my mobile devices as backup,  but as the opposite of an EFB CB, I have both ForeFlight and Pilot. Go! just doesn’t do it for me as primary.

[Will.iam]

58 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

I’ve always had a copy of Go! on my mobile devices as backup,  but as the opposite of an EFB CB, I have both ForeFlight and Pilot. Go! just doesn’t do it for me as primary.

Oh i agree nice to have but not required. 

[Pinecone]

I am in the camp of different applications for logbook and EFB.

I use SafeLog for my logbook.  I used to use AeroLog Pro as secondary to my paper log book.  In looking at various products SafeLog responded quickly, had me send the data file from AeroLog to try to convert, and in about 3 days, sent me a file to import into their product.

One thing I like about it is they store the data in their cloud, but it is also stored on my devices.  So a couple of desktops, my laptop, my phone and two iPads.  So my data is very backed up.  And I export and CSV file at least once and year, just in case.

I primarily use FF, but have tried GP, but my brain works the way that FF works.  Map to plan.

[midlifeflyer]

30 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

I am in the camp of different applications for logbook and EFB.

Me too, for various reasons. 

One is probably similar to yours. I don't want to feel tied to an EFB even if there is the potential for exporting and importing it elsewhere. Plus, digital signatures don't transfer (for those who care).

#2 is simply that I was using MyFlightBook for 4 years before Foreflight even existed and 10 years before Foreflight had a logbook  

[Hank]

So far, I've been very happy with the free Avare, which runs on my Samsung phone and tablet. 

It not only saves subscription fees but also doesn't force me into the pricey apple family, which I've used with work phones (i4, i5, i7) and my first tablet (apple mini cellular). Don't like the pricing, the ecosystem or the functionality. 

[PeteMc]

4 hours ago, toto said:

Since FltPlanGO is now a Garmin product, it also interfaces with Garmin panel units - so you can get ADS-B traffic and weather from a GTX etc. 

Even if I had G Pilot, I don't think I'd use the WiFi update option.  BUT... I've always thought there should be a Pilot Lite that came with the purchase of a panel device.  So for those future purchasers, I hope Garmin continues to integrate FltPlan Go into the Garmin family and adds this option, as well as just making FltPlan Go a better product.  It's my Backup option since I can't load FF on my Android.  (FF should also come out with a Lite version that works on Android.) 

 

[donkaye, MCFI]

21 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

Even if I had G Pilot, I don't think I'd use the WiFi update option.  

After some "birthing" issues, the WiFi updates have worked perfectly for me for many months.  I let the update process proceed as I do my preflight.  By the time I've finished the preflight the updates have completed.

[MikeOH]

5 hours ago, toto said:

Since FltPlanGO is now a Garmin product,

I would suspect it won't remain free for long!