LuvFlying Posted October 30, 2009 Report Posted October 30, 2009 I'm looking at a 1990 201 AT and wondering what the difference is between the regular J and the Advanced Trainer. I see that it cost about $10k less and has "dual brakes; aux power plug; stanby vac; more durable interior. 14V electrical."It seems lighter than an average J of the same year too. Q: Are there significant disadvantages to a 14V system? (a quick scan of the logs shows a lot of landing light replacements)Q: Was there less insulation than the regular J - like (I believe it was) eagle?Q: What other differences are/where there?The first owner was Flight Safety. I believe it has been private owned for the last 6 years / 600 hours. Q: Should I be concerned that it has a training (potential abuse) history?Thanks again in advance for your help. Quote
LuvFlying Posted October 30, 2009 Author Report Posted October 30, 2009 Jim and Parker... encouraging responses! Thanks It does have AP... a STEC 55X (big smile) along with a buncha other goodies!(warning... plane porn) http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=1160048 Airframe time is not huge considering it was a trainer - 3150. Glad you pointed that GW increase out... I was just sniffing down that trail. The owner was not aware of the eligibility and he checked his W&B and there's no indication of the increase yet. I think he's going to call Mooney to confirm that it's not been done yet. Current GW is 890 so the increase would be sweet!... but almost too good to be true. The plane is loaded with avionics and is still light. I'm trying to figure out what's missing. Quote
Chris White ex-N205KD Posted October 30, 2009 Report Posted October 30, 2009 PM sent, LuvFlying! Quote
LuvFlying Posted October 30, 2009 Author Report Posted October 30, 2009 Quote: JimR That looks like an extremely desirable J model to me, Bob. Perhaps a bit pricey, though... Quote
fantom Posted October 30, 2009 Report Posted October 30, 2009 The plane is listed for about $30K more than it's worth, in my opinion. The panel has been completely redone, and having a new 3 blade prop, an O/H and a paint job, all at the same time, when the plane was 7 years old suggest a gear up in my experience. Check the log books carefully, and good luck! Quote
LuvFlying Posted October 30, 2009 Author Report Posted October 30, 2009 Per FAA records, there was a prop stike on a snowbank some time ago. I think the prop and paint job was many years seperated. I'm going to look carefully at that just the same. "New paint" always triggers a flag to me. thx. Quote
KSMooniac Posted October 30, 2009 Report Posted October 30, 2009 I agree about the high price, otherwise it looks very, very nice to me except for the 3-blade prop, which is a deduction in my book. Quote
Buster1 Posted October 30, 2009 Report Posted October 30, 2009 Is there a true "book" that you guys can reference to see value on Mooneys? A Kelly Blue Book sort of. I'm still looking for it if it's out there. Quote
Ned Gravel Posted October 30, 2009 Report Posted October 30, 2009 Buster: Book value depends on the evaluator/evaluation. I used AOPA VREF when I bought my E model in 2004. It was within 2AMUs of what was eventually agreed, minus the cost of making the aircraft airworthy following the pre-purchase inspection of course. I have heard that y'all have a few reputable a/c valuators in the US and they can give you a much more complete picture than the AOPA VREF, but it will cost you. If you are an AOPA member, its free. We have no equivalent online capability for COPA members in Canada - so I used the one from AOPA. "Membership has its priviledges." If you can appreciate that no negotiation is so important that you cannot walk away from it when the hairs on the back of your head stand up - you will get the a/c you want at a price that satisfies both you and the vendor. If either one of you is not happy, the sale will cause you trouble. Sometimes you have to walk away because the vendor lives on another planet. S'OK. IMHO, the best sale of an a/c (and I have only been involved in two purchases) is when a vendor wants to see you look after his bird as well as he/she did, because they no longer can. Extremely rare - but it has happened (although not to me). Good luck in your hunt. BTW: if the AT came with manual gear, I would have considered one. I like the dual brakes and the increased useful load. I like the manual gear more. So, for me, it was either a '65 or a '66 E model. Quote
LuvFlying Posted October 30, 2009 Author Report Posted October 30, 2009 Quote: JimR The closest thing that I have seen are the articles that are published in the MAPA Log. If you haven't joined yet you really need to. Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted December 18, 2009 Report Posted December 18, 2009 Reading through the logs on my plane, my prop has been on that plane at least once...mine escaped with about 30% less time it looks like...still wouldn't be afraid of that plane with the total time. ER did a good job of keeping mine in good shape... Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted January 12, 2010 Report Posted January 12, 2010 Quote: JimR It's back. Buy it now for 60K, down from 70K in the previous listing. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-Mooney-M20J-REAL-ESTATE-DEVELOPER-TOY-SALE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1e59f19730QQitemZ130358023984QQptZMotorsQ5fAircraft Quote
Cruiser Posted January 12, 2010 Report Posted January 12, 2010 It needs a paint job, an autopilot and GPS. Add at least $40k to the cost. If it is in good mechanical condition even $100k for a 1992 is not a bad price. TomK Quote
jlunseth Posted January 12, 2010 Report Posted January 12, 2010 I would check with Mooney to see if the plane has a maximum rated TT. Many GA planes do, and it is usually around 10,000. Like TBO, you can legally overfly it, but the resale value on the aircraft will be very poor. You could probably have the factory "remanufacture" the plane, but I shudder at the cost. Quote
mjc Posted January 12, 2010 Report Posted January 12, 2010 I don't believe the Mooney has a life limit. My concern on this one is actually the engine. The spec sheet mentions 1616 hours since overhaul, but is mum about how long ago that was, who did the overhaul, or anything else (such as total hours on the cylinders). If I buy this airplane, I would expect to have to overhaul the engine in one to five years. Within three years, this plane is likely to cost $60k for the plane, $6k to fix "stuff," $30k for an engine, $4k for an engine monitor, and $12k for paint for a total of $112k, not including the GPS and autopilot, which I consider optional. Add those in and you'll have nearly $140k in the plane. Quote
Carl S Posted January 12, 2010 Report Posted January 12, 2010 Quote: mjc ... Add those in and you'll have nearly $140k in the plane. Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted January 12, 2010 Report Posted January 12, 2010 Quote: jlunseth I would check with Mooney to see if the plane has a maximum rated TT. Many GA planes do, and it is usually around 10,000. Like TBO, you can legally overfly it, but the resale value on the aircraft will be very poor. You could probably have the factory "remanufacture" the plane, but I shudder at the cost. Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted January 12, 2010 Report Posted January 12, 2010 The type certificate for all M20s can be found under a single type certificate here: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/9d2f5fcad57b2577862574560062a27f/$FILE/2A3.pdf A PDF search for "Life" within the TCDS did not return anything related to Life Limted Components. Quote
GeorgePerry Posted January 12, 2010 Report Posted January 12, 2010 10,000 hours seems like alot of time for any airframe. MHO - I'd pass at 1/2 the price. If the ER means it was an Embry Riddle bird, that's good and bad. ERAU did a decent job of maintaining thier fleet (at least when I was there 20+ years ago) but students are hard on planes, and there are enough good examples out there to easily pass on that tired old mooney. Quote
Piloto Posted January 13, 2010 Report Posted January 13, 2010 Quote: Parker_Woodruff I have a 1990 M20J-AT. The dual brakes are great, especially because I'll do some teaching in mine. The 14V electrical system is fine, in fact many M20Js have that. 14V might not crank as well when it's 20 degrees outside, but I never had any problem. Hey, you can jump the thing from your car if you have to. Quote
Carl S Posted January 18, 2010 Report Posted January 18, 2010 It's back. Buy it now for 60K, down from 70K in the previous listing. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1992-Mooney-M20J-REAL-ESTATE-DEVELOPER-TOY-SALE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1e59f19730QQitemZ130358023984QQptZMotorsQ5fAircraft Quote
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