Mooney Meets F-16 in CA

[DaV8or]

Realize that they need GA to violate the TFRs. It's all part of the security theater. Without a few wayward planes, how else can they demonstrate their fearsome power and vigilance? They need us to help put on the show.

[kortopates]

deleted - wasn't my post

[flyboy0681]

Quote: colojo

I hadn't thought of that. Maybe it should be relabeled "PFR" for Permanent Flight Restriction.

[DaV8or]

Quote: jlunsete

Unfortunately, in my experience, those who complain most about inconveniences such as TFR's and TSA's, are also those first to be heard to say "where was the government and why weren't they doing their job" when something like 9-11 happens.

Man up.  Act like a PIC.  Get your briefing and avoid the TFR's regardless of which political party holds the oval office at any given moment.   It ain't that hard.

[flyboy0681]

Back to this subject. I just received an email from AOPA that all of the airspace between Orlando and Fort Lauderdale will be shut down under a giant TFR this Sunday in celebration of Obama's visit to the Sunshine state.

To the best of my recollection, this is the largest single TFR I've ever seen.

http://tfr.faa.gov/s...int_2_0765.html

[AmigOne]

Immediately after Grabrielle Giffords' attempted assassination in Tucson, every member of Congress at public events was assigned extra local police protection. We are talking of thousands of events every year throughout the country where local police work is diverted to protect these jokers. From a cost point of view Supreme Court judges, cabinet secretaries, courthouses, foreign embassies , visiting dignataries, etc are also under constant Secret Service and/or special agencies protection. I believe even Cheeney was specially allowed to retain SS protection, I wonder why?.

From a nuisance point of view the TFRs are more obvious now because of the oncoming election travel and they do not bother me. If you can, file IFR and that will solve the problem, if you cant you have to do some homework. I live next to the SFRA in DC and can't even fly RC stuff during nearby TFR.

[bd32322]

<blockquote class="mceNonEditable">

<div style="padding-bottom:2px;"><strong>Quote</strong>: jlunsete</div>

<div class="quotes">

<p>Unfortunately, in my experience, those who complain most about inconveniences such as TFR's and TSA's, are also those first to be heard to say "where was the government and why weren't they doing their job" when something like 9-11 happens.</p>

<p>Man up. Act like a PIC.  Get your briefing and avoid the TFR's regardless of which political party holds the oval office at any given moment. It ain't that hard.</p>

</div>

</blockquote>

<p>You know, all those assassination plots were hatched in private. Would you agree to having cameras and recorders installed in our homes to protect the sacred ones? Truth is, the founding fathers realized that the president is an ordinary man and violent death is a reality. That's why they created the succession of power. It has proven effective and served us well. IMO, the president's safety is not as important as our individual freedoms and the founding fathers might well agree. Exposure to assassins and nut jobs comes with the president's job and it's no secret.</p>

Well said Dav8or

On a related point, always getting a voice call weather briefing has saved my bacon a couple of times in the north east. Even if its severe clear for a local flight and even if foreflight shows no TFRs, i ask for an abbreviated briefing... Any TFRs? No? Cya ...

[flyboy0681]

The TFR covered a greater portion of the entire state of Florida. If a VFR pilot like myself needed to get to a point north of Tampa and Orlando we couldn't do it since part of the TFR covered the entire east-west corridor of the state, from Tampa to the west to Titusville to the east. In other words, it was a gauntlet.

In addition, my home base was directly under the TFR veil which wrapped around the southeast portion of the state.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

TFRs make sense for firefighting and other types of disaster response, but to effectively publish the President's travel schedule to the world with TFRs makes no sense to me. I live in a swing state and Obama has been in Colorado more in the last 30 days than he's been in DC. It's extraordinarily frustrating and has forced me to reschedule two trips. Why shut down the airspace over Denver when the President is in Boulder, 20 miles away? I don't think "VIP movement" TFRs protect anyone, but they've sure been making life a pain lately for those who fly on the Front Range.

[flyboy0681]

Yet another one in my area. The last one was just two weeks ago.

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_2_4844.html

[cujet1]

One thing regularly missed in TFR discussions:

The right to free and unrestricted travel is considered a natural right. Tinfoil hat statement of the day: Restricting travel is a favorite tool of tyranny.

In the United States, there have been a number of court cases, from lower courts, through superior courts and the Supreme Court Involving free travel rights. The outcome is always the same. Regardless of the method of travel chosen, free and unrestricted travel is always ruled a natural right.

There are, of course, mitigating circumstances that are beyond the scope of discussion here. Put simply, barring an emergency, government related delays to travel are always exceptionally temporary in nature.

I choose the airplane as my mode of personal travel. 10m radius TFR,s that last for very extended periods of time have:

A) prevented me from being home on my one day off

B ) prevented me from using my airplane

C) put my airplane at risk of an approaching hurricane

D) put me at risk of violation/death due to maneuvering to avoid a thunderstorm

In addition, the threat of the use of deadly force, against me, an American citizen, by the US armed forces, does not sit well with me. Our founding fathers would have never accepted such behavior...

[fantom]

Yet another one in my area. The last one was just two weeks ago.

http://tfr.faa.gov/s...ail_2_4844.html

Mike....finally finish up your Instrument Rating. It won't hurt as much!

[flyboy0681]

Mike....finally finish up your Instrument Rating. It won't hurt as much!

The IR has to take a backseat to my income, especially during these times, although it's proceeding nicely.

My TFR complaints are not self centered because I haven't been grounded by any of them (not yet at least), my concerns are flight schools and FBO's that have to shut down because a thousand square miles of airspace is taken over by one persons appearance in the general area.

And I thought the shutting down of LAX was bad when Bill Clinton took the time to get a haircut.