Potential New Owner Transition Training

[caractacuspdoom]

Hi all,

I'm currently in the process of buying a new-to-me 1963 M20C that is currently located in Orange County, CA. I live in Colorado and would be looking to fly the plane back home with me, assuming everything passes the pre-buy and subsequent annual, which is scheduled towards the end of July. I'll need some time in the plane to both become comfortable flying in it solo, and also to make sure I meet whatever restrictions insurance has in place for me, as I don't have any Mooney time in my logbook. I do have about twenty hours of complex time and ~300 hours total. Are there any active instructors in that area who would be available towards the end of July to assist?

Thanks for any suggestions or advice!

[Brandt]

Mooneypros.com @mike_elliott

[Hank]

Doesn't @donkaye, MCFI live in SoCal? He may know someone else if he's not available. 

[dkkim73]

You might also want to have the transition instructor fly the plane back with you. More time for ADM talk, working on panel nav, AP, weather gear operation as applicable. Then you can do specific training in your home sphere as indicated (high DA ops, LOFT along a planned commute, etc). 

My 2 cents. 

Don wasn't available when I was looking, I went with Mooney Pros and got a great instructor. Mike can work pretty proactively with you on timing as he has a rolodex. 

[Marc_B]

@MarcJohnson is CFI/CFII in Colorado Springs and might be available to go out with you, fly back and do transition training along the way or back here in Colorado.  Also agree with @donkaye, MCFI based in CA for instruction as well as possibly @kortopates.

@caractacuspdoom I think you'll probably have several options depending on their availability, but agree that having someone fly back would be a plus as well as more fun!

[Paul Thomas]

You've had some great suggestions.

What part of CO?  @Vance Harral is CO based and may be able to help you.

[Pinecone]

Mooney Flyer has a list of available instructors

https://themooneyflyer.com/cfi.html

 

[caractacuspdoom]

11 hours ago, Paul Thomas said:

You've had some great suggestions.

What part of CO?  @Vance Harral is CO based and may be able to help you.

I'm in the northern exurbs of Denver. I know Vance and have flown with him previously, but I wasn't sure if it was feasible to drag someone out to SoCal for training and then back since now we've got two people's calendars to try to get aligned. I would definitely be looking to work with someone local on an as-needed basis, just trying to figure out what's practical for the initial figuring-things-out phase.

[Vance Harral]

11 hours ago, Paul Thomas said:

You've had some great suggestions.

What part of CO?  @Vance Harral is CO based and may be able to help you.

I appreciate the mention, but I'm unavailable for this sort of work at the end of July due to other flight instruction commitments.  Any of the other options discussed above are fine choices.

[MarcJohnson]

Hi there. I would be interested in helping with your transition training. I live in Colorado Springs. I have done multiple transition training missions out of California back to Colorado.  Only issue is that AirVenture is at the end of July and I plan to attend. 
 

Let me know if I can be of assistance. 
 

Marc

[caractacuspdoom]

40 minutes ago, MarcJohnson said:

Hi there. I would be interested in helping with your transition training. I live in Colorado Springs. I have done multiple transition training missions out of California back to Colorado.  Only issue is that AirVenture is at the end of July and I plan to attend. 
 

Let me know if I can be of assistance. 
 

Marc

Hi Marc,

Thanks for your response. I'll be in California the week of AirVenture, so I'd say the timing is unlikely to work out. I'm doing the pre-buy on the 21st, then if that checks out we'll be doing the annual, so it likely wouldn't be until the weekend of the 26th that it will be ready to fly. 

[MikeOH]

10 minutes ago, caractacuspdoom said:

Hi Marc,

Thanks for your response. I'll be in California the week of AirVenture, so I'd say the timing is unlikely to work out. I'm doing the pre-buy on the 21st, then if that checks out we'll be doing the annual, so it likely wouldn't be until the weekend of the 26th that it will be ready to fly. 

Your expectation that the annual will only require 4 days may be unrealistic.

[Hank]

9 minutes ago, caractacuspdoom said:

I'm doing the pre-buy on the 21st, then if that checks out we'll be doing the annual, so it likely wouldn't be until the weekend of the 26th that it will be ready to fly. 

I hope that schedule works out for you. I've always been thrilled to get my annual completed in only two weeks!

Good luck with everything. We really, really enjoy our C, and have flown it from Buffalo to Ft. Lauderdale to Houston to Cheyenne, but haven't crossed the Rockies yet. Take pictures on your trip back!

[caractacuspdoom]

2 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

Your expectation that the annual will only require 4 days may be unrealistic.

Well, that's good to know! When I spoke to the mechanic, it sounded like he expected the annual to take 24 hours of labour, so I made an assumption that would all be in one go (i.e three full days). Sounds like I should expect that time to be a bit more spread out over a week or two? I hadn't even considered that.

[MikeOH]

1 minute ago, caractacuspdoom said:

Well, that's good to know! When I spoke to the mechanic, it sounded like he expected the annual to take 24 hours of labour, so I made an assumption that would all be in one go (i.e three full days). Sounds like I should expect that time to be a bit more spread out over a week or two? I hadn't even considered that.

That sounds like the right number of shop hours for a proper Mooney annual.  But, yeah, give him a call to see how busy his shop is and how many CALENDAR days he thinks it will take.  Also, be aware that if he finds stuff that needs parts there will be a lead time on those.

[Hank]

Yes, 20-24 hours is pretty standard for Mooney annuals. Sadly, 2-3 calendar weeks is also pretty standard. Please confirm the schedule with the IA doing the annual. 

[caractacuspdoom]

1 hour ago, MikeOH said:

That sounds like the right number of shop hours for a proper Mooney annual.  But, yeah, give him a call to see how busy his shop is and how many CALENDAR days he thinks it will take.  Also, be aware that if he finds stuff that needs parts there will be a lead time on those.

I called him up and it does sound like he expects it to be completed during the 3-5 day timespan. He has a couple of other mechanics in his shop so it sounds like between that group he reckons they'll be done in fairly short order. I'll just have to expect to be flexible. Fortunate that I work remotely anyway, so that's not an issue.

[Utah20Gflyer]

4 minutes ago, caractacuspdoom said:

I called him up and it does sound like he expects it to be completed during the 3-5 day timespan. He has a couple of other mechanics in his shop so it sounds like between that group he reckons they'll be done in fairly short order. I'll just have to expect to be flexible. Fortunate that I work remotely anyway, so that's not an issue.

My mechanic and I usually do my annual in two days with both of us working and a third guy popping in for a couple hours.  This can work out fine but there is always the chance you may need parts that you may not have on hand.   My first annual took 3 months. So you never really know.  Personally I wouldn’t try to make any plans until the plane is done with the annual and ready to fly again.  

[Pinecone]

5 hours ago, caractacuspdoom said:

I'm doing the pre-buy on the 21st, then if that checks out we'll be doing the annual, so it likely wouldn't be until the weekend of the 26th that it will be ready to fly. 

Realize that doing the Mooney 100 hr/annual checklist is over 30 hours alone.

[dkkim73]

FWIW I had to reschedule my transition/ferry flight several times. We did some upgrade work but, man, it's opening a Pandora's box to pull a cover...

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Realize that doing the Mooney 100 hr/annual checklist is over 30 hours alone.

I posit that 30 hours is HIGH for a M20C. I think 20-25 hours is reasonable.

[Parker_Woodruff]

7 hours ago, caractacuspdoom said:

Well, that's good to know! When I spoke to the mechanic, it sounded like he expected the annual to take 24 hours of labour, so I made an assumption that would all be in one go (i.e three full days). Sounds like I should expect that time to be a bit more spread out over a week or two? I hadn't even considered that.

24 hours is the inspection time...not counting actually fixing squawks.  Then if a part is needed and must be ordered, etc.  Things can get very lengthy if the wrong things are broken.

[Pinecone]

OK, for a C maybe so, but as Parker says, that assumes nothing is wrong.

[FlyingDude]

14 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Realize that doing the Mooney 100 hr/annual checklist is over 30 hours alone.

Yes, pushing 40 for the maintenance items only. I used to think I was slow (but meticulous). I didn't care, as it was my time and my plane, but I worked full time at an fbo last February and they had me do a 100h on a K model and I got the "You're pretty fast" compliment... so I wasn't actually slow, I was actually not skipping the stuff that takes time. (Gascolator, injector servo finger filter, fuel screen, kn filter washing, spark plug cleaning and gapping, gear rigging checking, packing bearings [worth doing every 100h as the grease gets contaminated by engine oil on the nose or mains get dirtied on wet surfaces], and the general cleaning and of course lubing). Just opening and closing the plane takes some time. These are all maintenance items, not inspection items... Anyone quoting under 30hrs for the 100h maintenance is probably skipping items. Good thing, most of them can be done by owners as preventative maintenance. 

 

[caractacuspdoom]

After reading through all these responses, it's become clear that I shouldn't have any expectations about when the annual will be completed. Fortunately, the accommodations I have lined up are both inexpensive and flexible, so if I need to stay longer, I can do that without paying out the nose. And if the pre-buy turns up a no-go item then I can also just cancel the remainder of my stay. I suppose there may be a point at which I decide to return home and wait until everything is done, so I'll figure that out while I'm there if need be, so hopefully it won't be too difficult to find transition training on relatively short notice!