Inogen

[Aaviationist]

12 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

You don't know what I spent on my pulse oximeter.   And I base mine off of my resting sat at near sea level.  NOT on absolute numbers.

And I KNOW my hypoxia symptoms.

Again Imogen recommendations are for average people with a safety factor.  They want to make sure that most people are fine with their numbers.  Many people may be able to use different numbers based on their personal physiology.  You seem to think that one size fits all.  I did two 3+ hour flights this past weekend.  Out at 17,000 and back at 16,000.  I was on ships O2 with an O2D2 with my pax on the Imogen.  On the outbound trip, setting the O2D2 at D5, which automatically starts O2 at 5000 feet and adjusts for altitude, my sats were a bit low.  So I ended up at F2 setting to keep my sats up.  On the way home, I was fine at the D5 setting on the O2D2.  Good pulse ox numbers and no evidence of hypoxia.  So even using a built in oxygen system, just setting the numbers is NOT enough.

You keep saying I am doing something stupid.  Nope, I am using available information to use the equipment in a reasonable manner.

And since you seem to think that anyone who does not agree with you is "stupid" I am done with you.  I love the ignore setting.

 

Saying you know your hypoxic symptoms and can recognize them, and at the same time suggesting that using a device not designed to do what you are doing or suggesting, using a device in a way the manufacturer explicitly says not to -

is stupid. 
 

using a cheap pulse ox from Amazon in addition-

completely stupid. 

[201er]

Does an oxygen concentrator satisfy the supplemental oxygen requirements of 91.211? Or are they just used unofficially at lower altitudes where oxygen is not required?

Edited Tuesday at 01:56 PM by 201er

[Marc_B]

7 minutes ago, Aaviationist said:

suggesting that using a device not designed to do what you are doing

This is misleading, because oxygen equipment is doing exactly what it was designed to do.  But the part you’re missing is the testing.

given that we are all different I wouldn’t advocate ANYONE use oxygen equipment without directed self testing. Heck, we’ve had pilots that the O2D2 didn’t work well for as well as systems where it worked very well.

there are recommendations, guidelines, and regulations. They aren’t the same. Some pilots need oxygen at 10,000 ft.

some may not get a pulse delivery system to work well for them. Some will.

what we don’t have is extensive testing of service ceiling if the various units.

there’s nuance here. Don’t paint in such broad strokes.

follow regulations. But take manufacturer recommendations as a place to be confirmed by end user testing. They might be over or understated. 

[Aaviationist]

6 minutes ago, Marc_B said:

This is misleading, because oxygen equipment is doing exactly what it was designed to do.  But the part you’re missing is the testing.

given that we are all different I wouldn’t advocate ANYONE use oxygen equipment without directed self testing. Heck, we’ve had pilots that the O2D2 didn’t work well for as well as systems where it worked very well.

there are recommendations, guidelines, and regulations. They aren’t the same. Some pilots need oxygen at 10,000 ft.

some may not get a pulse delivery system to work well for them. Some will.

what we don’t have is extensive testing of service ceiling if the various units.

there’s nuance here. Don’t paint in such broad strokes.

follow regulations. But take manufacturer recommendations as a place to be confirmed by end user testing. They might be over or understated. 

The Inogen was not designed to work for 2 people above 14k and 18k for one person. 
 

it’s not misleading - it’s the guidance from the manufacturer. 

[N201MKTurbo]

9 minutes ago, 201er said:

Does an oxygen concentrator satisfy the supplemental oxygen requirements of 91.211? Or are they just used unofficially at lower altitudes where oxygen is not required?

The FAA mentions it as a thing. They don’t say it is good or bad. The regs just say oxygen. It doesn’t mention anything about where it comes from.

[Aaviationist]

17 minutes ago, 201er said:

Does an oxygen concentrator satisfy the supplemental oxygen requirements of 91.211? Or are they just used unofficially at lower altitudes where oxygen is not required?

I believe it does within the constraints of the manufacturer guidelines. For 1 person it may be a good option. For more than 1 it is not. 

[N201MKTurbo]

6 minutes ago, Aaviationist said:

The Inogen was not designed to work for 2 people above 14k and 18k for one person. 
 

it’s not misleading - it’s the guidance from the manufacturer. 

I suggest YOU don’t use it for two people so YOU can sleep at night.

[Aaviationist]

10 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I suggest YOU don’t use it for two people so YOU can sleep at night.

 

10 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I suggest YOU don’t use it for two people so YOU can sleep at night.

Again, I’m not sure what the mental block is for you, perhaps there is a cognitive problem you should get checked out - but I didn’t say that. Inogen did. The people that make the thing you are suggesting others mis-use. 

[N201MKTurbo]

1 minute ago, Aaviationist said:

 

Again, I’m not sure what the mental block is for you, perhaps there is a cognitive problem you should get checked out - but I didn’t say that. Inogen did. The people that make the thing you are suggesting others mis-use. 

Just let them kill themselves and don’t worry about it.

[Aaviationist]

56 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

 

And since you seem to think that anyone who does not agree with you is "stupid" I am done with you.  I love the ignore setting.

 

I look forward to being able to correct your inaccurate dribble unencumbered. 

[201er]

21 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The FAA mentions it as a thing. They don’t say it is good or bad. The regs just say oxygen. It doesn’t mention anything about where it comes from.

Ok one more question. What is the point? Is it to save money or the convenience of not having to refill o2?

[Marc_B]

28 minutes ago, Aaviationist said:

it’s not misleading - it’s the guidance from the manufacturer.

How well does it work for you in 1 or 2 person set up?  It's misleading because you're blindly taking a recommendation that may or may not be applicable to the person using it and painting broad brush strokes.

2 person mode might not work for someone at all.  However the machine concentrates oxygen.  It's working as intended.  But the guideline isn't law and may or may not be applicable.

ANY oxygen equipment you you should be end user tested to verify it's working properly and that you find the settings that work for you.

Don't blindly follow any manufacturer recommendations "trusting" that they work for you.  Maybe they oversold it, or maybe they're way conservative.

But DO follow FAA regulations, because that's how we protect our privilege to fly.

[N201MKTurbo]

1 minute ago, 201er said:

Ok one more question. What is the point? Is it to save money or the convenience of not having to refill o2?

Both I imagine. They are not cheap, but the medical versions can be found cheap on Craigs List after grandma or grandpa pass away. The AC powered concentrators have been around for decades. The portable DC powered units are pretty new.

[Marc_B]

8 minutes ago, 201er said:

Ok one more question. What is the point? Is it to save money or the convenience of not having to refill o2?

Mobility and portability.  For patients stuck on oxygen it's been amazing to have a portable concentrator that fits on a shoulder strap instead of lugging around a tank.

Same for pilot.  No need to refill tank.  No need to lug around a tank.  Plus as @donkaye, MCFI mentioned, you can easily bring it commercially from one plane to the next.

It's another tool in the toolbag, and has it's own pros and cons.  It doesn't work for everyone, and I'm not giving up my built in oxygen with an O2D2 that I fill once to twice a year (at annual or at my FBO).  But it IS legitimate and works well for those who use them.

[Aaviationist]

36 minutes ago, 201er said:

Ok one more question. What is the point? Is it to save money or the convenience of not having to refill o2?

So there is a benefit for the Inogen if you’re a renter, single user, or fly at night and use o2 at lower levels. Plus weight
 

the cost is not cheaper despite what’s been posted here. 
 

home fill your own tank units are cheap and easy to come by. 
 

one thing I don’t know but I assume isn’t possible is feeding an oxygen compressor from an Inogen?  Since it’s pulse I would assume that is not possible. 

Edited Tuesday at 03:10 PM by Aaviationist

[NickG]

I have one of the expensive O2 finger monitors. I have an Inogen G5 (which I mentioned earlier, I only use for me and I have an Aerox bottle that is for pax and my backup). I regularly fly 17k or so in my O3. Using the Inogen, I’m 96% or higher. Using the Aerox, the same. 

Like all nasal cannula, you have to remember to breathe in through your nose, out through your mouth. If you’re a mouth breather you wont get any O2 from any system. If my Inogen doesn’t detect O2 demand (breathe in through the nose) after a short time it beeps loudly with an alarm. The alarm is nearly impossible to hear in the cockpit with the Bose on. 

The Inogen is a reliable unlimited source of oxygen. I use it anytime time I’m at or above 8k which is basically all the time. I never worry about how much is left in the tank, how much it costs to refill, or who can refill it. Refilling the Aerox can sometimes be a PITA. At my home base KHND the FBO charges $150 to fill it. Luckily I have a friend with a refill kit in his hangar, but coordinating with him can be hit or miss. I fly a lot, primarily XC. I’d say there’s a 30% chance that there’s portable O2 refill available on field during my trips. The last thing I want to do when I get to my destination or on a fuel stop is to have to drive around trying to find someone who will refill the bottle. If I solely use the Aerox bottle, I’ll be lucky if I have enough O2 for 6 hours. I love the Inogen!

[MikeOH]

3 hours ago, Pinecone said:

What part of most of using a continuous monitoring of actual blood O2 levels can't you grasp???????

Exactly!

I gave up on him many posts back; glad to see you’ve done the same

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, Aaviationist said:

So there is a benefit for the Inogen if you’re a renter, single user, or fly at night and use o2 at lower levels. Plus weight
 

the cost is not cheaper despite what’s been posted here. 
 

home fill your own tank units are cheap and easy to come by. 
 

one thing I don’t know but I assume isn’t possible is feeding an oxygen compressor from an Inogen?  Since it’s pulse I would assume that is not possible. 

 

they work with Invacare concentrators. It is a compressor that compresses the output of their concentrators. It is called the home fill unit.

[LANCECASPER]

The troll only lives when he is fed. Ignore the troll, don't feed him and he will direct his attention to other online forums where they feed him and engage him in endless debates. (https://behaviourhelp.com/a-z-challenging-behaviours/argumentative-behaviour#:~:text=Here are some common causes,to a propensity for argumentation.)

 

He has a hard time remembering which of his screen names to use that hasn't been blocked on Mooneyspace. Perhaps supplemental oxygen would help. 

[Aaviationist]

15 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

 

they work with Invacare concentrators. It is a compressor that compresses the output of their concentrators. It is called the home fill unit.

That’s the one I use with my home Invacare unit to fill my tank. If you can use the Inogen with it that would be a great combo. 
 

the nipple adaptors are easy to find. Can fill your bottle every night if you plug it in after landing. 

Edited Tuesday at 06:11 PM by Aaviationist

[Pinecone]

10 hours ago, 201er said:

Ok one more question. What is the point? Is it to save money or the convenience of not having to refill o2?

One or both.  Some FBOs charge a huge amount to service O2.

Also having to schedule it and get it done.

[Pinecone]

How do you use one of these home fill kits to fill a built in system?

[Aaviationist]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

How do you use one of these home fill kits to fill a built in system?

There are adaptors for the nipple fitting needed for the compressor. That fitting will go to a cga540 or whatever else you need. 

Edited yesterday at 01:50 AM by Aaviationist

[Scooter]

Just talked to Jon as mentioned by @201Mooniac. Jon was very helpful. Talked about going to Osh and Sun n fun. Offered the discounted price that was offered during Osh. It seems that the Inogen is selling well at the shows. New version is the Rove 6. Well needless to say I am a little lighter in the wallet now. Ships tomorrow and should arrive by Thursday. Jon was a pleasure to work with.

[wombat]

I've already got adapters to go from my industrial tank to my Aerox portable tank as well as the onboard tank for the Mooney. Adapting the output from a homefill machine will be easy.

I do wonder how to test the output from the homefill machine to determine if it's making relatively pure oxygen and if there are any unpleasant contaminants.