Starter Adapter now, new airplane is snakebit!

[Ragsf15e]

All loaded up for a family vacation to see my brother’s family.  “Clear!”, prop just ticks over and there’s a sad buzzing sound…. Try again, same result.  Kids very sad they won’t see their cousins, adults sad they won’t see family.

In retrospect, it slipped just a bit last weekend at my parents but I thought I didn’t engage the push/twist just right.  I guess it is good it got us home before completely giving up.

Aren’t these things supposed to last longer?  The starter and adapter were OH in 2022, 220 hours ago…

My old F stranded us once, for one day (brake seal issue) in 10 years and 900 hours.

[MikeOH]

Very sorry to hear this.

I'll tell you though, you're helping me just keep my F, rather than trading up for more speed; planes don't go very fast when they're stuck in the shop!

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

All loaded up for a family vacation to see my brother’s family.  “Clear!”, prop just ticks over and there’s a sad buzzing sound…. Try again, same result.  Kids very sad they won’t see their cousins, adults sad they won’t see family.

In retrospect, it slipped just a bit last weekend at my parents but I thought I didn’t engage the push/twist just right.  I guess it is good it got us home before completely giving up.

Aren’t these things supposed to last longer?  The starter and adapter were OH in 2022, 220 hours ago…

My old F stranded us once, for one day (brake seal issue) in 10 years and 900 hours.

Yes it should.  The starter adapter on my higher torque Cont. IO-550 has been going strong for 12 years.  What starter do you have on your Continental?  Is it a lightweight starter or factory original?

Sorry to hear but the good news is that it failed at your home drome. If it had been at your destination or worse at an intermediate stop on the trip, you would be really screwed on a holiday weekend. - no flights/ if you do find some the price will be sky high.  Then getting the plane repaired later remotely and logistics to fly it back would be a nightmare. 

Someone posted in the past an old aviation saying.  It went something like : "Only when you have the luxury to take your time on a trip and don't have to be in a hurry to get anywhere, then that is the time to fly your own piston plane....."

[GeeBee]

21 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Someone posted in the past an old aviation saying.  It went something like : "Only when you have the luxury to take your time on a trip and don't have to be in a hurry to get anywhere, then that is the time to fly your own piston plane....."

Distilled: "Time to spare go by air"

[1980Mooney]

1 minute ago, GeeBee said:

Distilled: "Time to spare go by air"

Love it!  So true.

[Ragsf15e]

26 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Yes it should.  The starter adapter on my higher torque Cont. IO-550 has been going strong for 12 years.  What starter do you have on your Continental?  Is it a lightweight starter or factory original?

Sorry to hear but the good news is that it failed at your home drome. If it had been at your destination or worse at an intermediate stop on the trip, you would be really screwed on a holiday weekend. - no flights/ if you do find some the price will be sky high.  Then getting the plane repaired later remotely and logistics to fly it back would be a nightmare. 

Someone posted in the past an old aviation saying.  It went something like : "Only when you have the luxury to take your time on a trip and don't have to be in a hurry to get anywhere, then that is the time to fly your own piston plane....."

No, it’s one of the older heavy starters, but I do use Camguard and there’s a lot of debate on that!

Yes, it’s a good bummer that it’s in my hangar and not far far away.

[Schllc]

I have adjusted my habits to where when something like this happens, rather than send in for an overhaul, I buy a new one, and send the old for overhaul for a spare. 
done it with quite a few parts. Starter, turbo, magneto, fuel pump etc. 

This is not practical to do with everything obviously, but nothing upsets me as much as owning an airplane that I cannot use!  And having a few extras of items that are wear susceptible. 
I have had one trip in eight years that was cancelled like yours, although I had taken off when the magneto failed and had to turn around and land, then cancel. 

[1980Mooney]

29 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

No, it’s one of the older heavy starters, but I do use Camguard and there’s a lot of debate on that!

Yes, it’s a good bummer that it’s in my hangar and not far far away.

Long ago I used Camguard and I did have the starter adapter fail.  I stopped Camguard at that time when the new starter adapter was installed and have never used Camguard again.  As stated above I now have 12 years on my starter adapter with no problems.  Maybe a coincidence and maybe related.....

[Ragsf15e]

33 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Long ago I used Camguard and I did have the starter adapter fail.  I stopped Camguard at that time when the new starter adapter was installed and have never used Camguard again.  As stated above I now have 12 years on my starter adapter with no problems.  Maybe a coincidence and maybe related.....

Can we tell from the part number exactly what starter it is?  The 8130 from last overhaul says “”TCM Starter”.  Here’s the ssn of the adapter too… is there any better adapter to use or just get this one repaired/exchanged by a good shop?

Starter - 646275-1

Adapter - 641348-A12

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, Schllc said:

I have adjusted my habits to where when something like this happens, rather than send in for an overhaul, I buy a new one, and send the old for overhaul for a spare. 
done it with quite a few parts. Starter, turbo, magneto, fuel pump etc. 

This is not practical to do with everything obviously, but nothing upsets me as much as owning an airplane that I cannot use!  And having a few extras of items that are wear susceptible. 
I have had one trip in eight years that was cancelled like yours, although I had taken off when the magneto failed and had to turn around and land, then cancel. 

I would do that with the starter… the adapter fits your other category though. Ouch.

 

[1980Mooney]

15 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Can we tell from the part number exactly what starter it is?  The 8130 from last overhaul says “”TCM Starter”.  Here’s the ssn of the adapter too… is there any better adapter to use or just get this one repaired/exchanged by a good shop?

Starter - 646275-1

Adapter - 641348-A12

Alt Application Data

That is the recommended Hartzell starter.  See pdf above.

New Starters From Hartzell Engine Tech | Aircraft Spruce ®

Edited May 24 by 1980Mooney

[kortopates]

No, it’s one of the older heavy starters, but I do use Camguard and there’s a lot of debate on that!
Yes, it’s a good bummer that it’s in my hangar and not far far away.

The majority of us use Camguard. Only Niagara Air parts is down on Camguard for the starter adapter.
So the wear that Camguard is protecting the engine from, it’s also protecting the starter adapter from. There is some truth though to if one starts using camguard on an engine with a worn starter adapter you may see it start slipping since the camguard is making the surface more slippery. But Niagara’s suggestion is paramount to let’s maximize life of the starter adapter at the expense of the engine. yet there is no evidence that starter adapter life is shortened by camguard or any other oil additive packages.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ragsf15e]

1 minute ago, kortopates said:

The majority of us use Camguard. Only Niagara Air parts is down on Camguard for the starter adapter.
So the wear that Camguard is protecting the engine from, it’s also protecting the starter adapter from. There is some truth though to if one starts using camguard on an engine with a worn starter adapter you may see it start slipping since the camguard is making the surface more slippery. But Niagara’s suggestion is paramount to let’s maximize life of the starter adapter at the expense of the engine. yet there is no evidence that starter adapter life is shortened by camguard or any other oil additive packages.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Any way to tell from the symptoms of the prop just barely ticking to the side while the starter buzzes away if it’s time for the starter, adapter or both?  I just dug through the paperwork and both were “overhauled” 220 hours/3 years ago.

[Schllc]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

I would do that with the starter… the adapter fits your other category though. Ouch.

 

I think the starter adapter has a much lower failure rate than the starter. 
And for the record, I have used cam guard in all of my planes for 9 years, and I have had one failure in a continental and one in a lycoming,  it both occurred immediately after I purchased the planes, and both had been in service for over five years. 

[MB65E]

3 hours ago, GeeBee said:

Distilled: "Time to spare go by air"

…More time yet… go by Jet!

-Matt

[Brandt]

58 minutes ago, Schllc said:

I think the starter adapter has a much lower failure rate than the starter. 
And for the record, I have used cam guard in all of my planes for 9 years, and I have had one failure in a continental and one in a lycoming,  it both occurred immediately after I purchased the planes, and both had been in service for over five years. 

I have about 500 hours on my engine using Camguard.  No issues.

[kortopates]

Any way to tell from the symptoms of the prop just barely ticking to the side while the starter buzzes away if it’s time for the starter, adapter or both?  I just dug through the paperwork and both were “overhauled” 220 hours/3 years ago.

You’re describing a bad starter adapter. When you can hear the starter buzzing but prop doesn’t move or moves just a bit and stops then it’s the adapter. if you don’t hear the starter and no prop movement it’s the starter or the starter relay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kortopates]

You’re describing a bad starter adapter. When you can hear the starter buzzing but prop doesn’t move or moves just a bit and stops then it’s the adapter. if you don’t hear the starter and no prop movement it’s the starter or the starter relay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you actually pulled the starter off you can also verify it’s the adapter by trying to turn the adapter gear with a heavy duty screwdriver counter clockwise. When bad you’ll be able to turn it with little resistance but when good you’ll only be able go a little bit as it winds tight and then it will unwind back on you.
But you don’t have to do this.

Some lightweight starters are known for ruining the adapter including Iskra starter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ragsf15e]

On 5/24/2025 at 6:52 PM, kortopates said:

If you actually pulled the starter off you can also verify it’s the adapter by trying to turn the adapter gear with a heavy duty screwdriver counter clockwise. When bad you’ll be able to turn it with little resistance but when good you’ll only be able go a little bit as it winds tight and then it will unwind back on you.
But you don’t have to do this.

Some lightweight starters are known for ruining the adapter including Iskra starter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We got the starter off and just did this test which it passed. It takes about 3/4 turn with a screwdriver and then it grabs solid and it turns itself back when we let go. Then my mechanic tested the starter and it turns freely and turns well with power applied. So now we are wondering which part is actually broken.

[Bolter]

51 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

We got the starter off and just did this test which it passed. It takes about 3/4 turn with a screwdriver and then it grabs solid and it turns itself back when we let go. Then my mechanic tested the starter and it turns freely and turns well with power applied. So now we are wondering which part is actually broken.

Then consider if the battery is not delivering the amps when needed.  Has voltage so it will spin an unloaded starter motor, but not against a real load.  

[MikeOH]

Weak battery? When was it last capacity tested? How old is it?

Also, look for poor grounding from battery to airframe.

https://skytec.aero/aircraft-starter-performance-issues/

[Ragsf15e]

Edit - a bit hasty when I wrote this (below) so continue down the thread because you will find this was not the verdict. I thought it was.

So here’s the update, and the verdict. Thankfully, my mechanic wanted to do more troubleshooting. Because the way it was acting really looked like the adapter. Big shout out to @kortopatesfor his screwdriver in the starter slot test on the adapter. It acted exactly like he said it would if if it was still good, so we troubleshot further. He hooked up my starter to 24 V after taking it off the engine and it spun fine, but it sounded just a little weird to him. Then he spun it by hand and said it didn’t feel right. It happens to be a Cirrus service center and they use the same starter for some of their engines. The shop had one on hand so he pulled it out. He spun it by hand and then spun mine and said yeah yours doesn’t sound right. We put our ear up to it, and you could hear some grinding noises inside the starter. He mounted the new starter on the engine. We pulled all the spark plugs and turned it over. It worked perfectly. So we just left that starter bolted on closed up the whole thing and I paid for a new starter and three hours of labor.  The bill wasn’t fun considering the new starter, but it was way better than a starter adapter. This from the energizer starter, which is supposed to be pretty good. Paid the bill, walked outside, fired up the plane and taxied back to the hangar.  Ahhhhh, all better.

[Ragsf15e]

1 minute ago, MikeOH said:

Weak battery? When was it last capacity tested? How old is it?

Also, look for poor grounding from battery to airframe.

https://skytec.aero/aircraft-starter-performance-issues/

I had heard about the battery as well, but it had just passed capacity test last month and I charged it prior to attempting to start for the trip last weekend on a battery minder, so I was pretty sure it was not the battery.

[MikeOH]

1 minute ago, Ragsf15e said:

I had heard about the battery as well, but it had just passed capacity test last month and I charged it prior to attempting to start for the trip last weekend on a battery minder, so I was pretty sure it was not the battery.

Good! Batteries ain't exactly cheap these days.  How about the grounds? The Skytec troubleshooting guide is pretty good.

[Ragsf15e]

3 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

Good! Batteries ain't exactly cheap these days.  How about the grounds? The Skytec troubleshooting guide is pretty good.

Oh, did you see the final verdict above? I posted it about the same time you posted about the battery. Starters aren’t cheap either. In fact, they’re about twice as much as a battery. Thank God there was one sitting on the shelf here though!