Wingtip Wednesday in Myrtle

[hubcap]

This is what it looked like today headed to Kentucky. Apparently I was flying upside down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ragsf15e]

7 minutes ago, hubcap said:

This is what it looked like today headed to Kentucky.

 

 

Snow?  Fog?

it was either 0/0 weather or the picture didn’t load.

[hubcap]

I can’t figure out how to turn the pictures right side up.

[Paul Thomas]

Mooneys are such great airplanes; who knew they could do acrobatics?

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, hubcap said:

I can’t figure out how to turn the pictures right side up.

Hold the phone right side up, and you may not need to,

[hubcap]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

Hold the phone right side up, and you may not need to,

Took the pictures with my IPad. That’s likely the issue.

[Marc_B]

Gravity applied...

[hubcap]

Finally got it right side up.

[Ragsf15e]

3 hours ago, hubcap said:

Finally got it right side up.

Wow, i like the way your g3x is setup.  Mine has the engine instrumentation on the left side.  Id prefer like yours so it is consistent when you bring up the split screen engine page, they will be on the same side as they were before. Also, yours has more information on it, but I see you don’t have all 6CHT‘s or EGT‘s or ff which mine does. I didn’t realize that could be customized.

Also, do you know what fuel flow you were running there?

[Falcon Man]

Hubcap, Nice tail wind!

Looks like you might need an oil cooler blocker if your oil temp stays @ 156F (or less than 180 F) during cruise, it isn't hot enough to vaporize moisture.

[hubcap]

2 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Wow, i like the way your g3x is setup.  Mine has the engine instrumentation on the left side.  Id prefer like yours so it is consistent when you bring up the split screen engine page, they will be on the same side as they were before. Also, yours has more information on it, but I see you don’t have all 6CHT‘s or EGT‘s or ff which mine does. I didn’t realize that could be customized.

Also, do you know what fuel flow you were running there?

The G3x is customizable. It is very easy to rearrange the screen and move the engine instruments to the other side. In that particular layout it only shows the temperature of the highest cylinder. If you touch the engine monitor screen it shows everything in detail for all 6 cylinders.
 

I was running a fuel flow of 10.2 GPH. The entire trip only took 30.2 gallons which includes climbing to 15,000’.

[Ragsf15e]

2 hours ago, Falcon Man said:

Hubcap, Nice tail wind!

Looks like you might need an oil cooler blocker if your oil temp stays @ 156F (or less than 180 F) during cruise, it isn't hot enough to vaporize moisture.

Actually his oil temp is pretty standard for a K.  I agree with you that around 180 is a good temp for the oil, but the primary oil temp sensor location on the tsio-360 is immediately after the oil cooler.  In fact, it’s basically attached to the cooler.  You kind of have to assume that the oil is much warmer (and thus above 180) elsewhere in the engine.  However, his reading is pretty close to the average for this engine type.

[Falcon Man]

Rags,

The issue of where the oil temperature reading takes place in our TSIO360 engines was discussed between myself, my IA and my engine overhaul shop several years back. I made the same assumption about the temp as you made and I was corrected. 

To make sure my memory serves me correctly I just now reviewed the oil flow diagram and oil temperature sections in the M20K Service and Maintenance Manual and here is the wording: "The oil temperature gauge is an electric unit receiving its signal from a temperature bulb in the engine case, located between the oil cooler and the case. The probe resistance changes as the oil temperature changes and this varies the readout on the instrument". The diagram verifies the flow of the hottest oil past the temp bulb before it gets to the oil cooler.

Further, in these turbocharged engines the case receives oil from the turbocharger and as such it makes sense to measure the oil temperature in the hottest operating area of the engine.

Jeff

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, Falcon Man said:

Rags,

The issue of where the oil temperature reading takes place in our TSIO360 engines was discussed between myself, my IA and my engine overhaul shop several years back. I made the same assumption about the temp as you made and I was corrected. 

To make sure my memory serves me correctly I just now reviewed the oil flow diagram and oil temperature sections in the M20K Service and Maintenance Manual and here is the wording: "The oil temperature gauge is an electric unit receiving its signal from a temperature bulb in the engine case, located between the oil cooler and the case. The probe resistance changes as the oil temperature changes and this varies the readout on the instrument". The diagram verifies the flow of the hottest oil past the temp bulb before it gets to the oil cooler.

Further, in these turbocharged engines the case receives oil from the turbocharger and as such it makes sense to measure the oil temperature in the hottest operating area of the engine.

Jeff

The temp probe is on the outlet of the oil cooler.  The flow of oil over it is already gone through the cooler or bypassed it.  If you want the hottest oil, youd have to measure it in the turbo or the main bearings etc but the probe definitely isn’t measuring the hottest oil.  
Savvy has a pretty good number of tsio-360 engines with data and they publish their average values.  Ill see if i can find the diagram for you - their “green” zone is 160-180.

[Falcon Man]

I believe your SB engine is different because my TCM manual doesn't cover the SB, it stops at MB. Clearly, my sending unit is on the inflow.

However, now I will have to call TCM and verify the wording in the manual which says the temp sensing bulb is actually in the case on MB engines. I now am having "over-analysis paralysis".

 

[Falcon Man]

I talked with TCM - sensing bulb is measuring the oil temp before going to cooler, not afterwords.

[Ragsf15e]

8 hours ago, Falcon Man said:

I talked with TCM - sensing bulb is measuring the oil temp before going to cooler, not afterwords.

I think there’s more to the story then… if the oil is only ~150 degrees before going through the cooler, then the vernatherm shouldnt be letting any (or very little) into the cooler at all which means a winterization plate wouldn’t make much difference.  The vernatherms open ~160ish depending on the part number.

[Z W]

I'd like to know the answer. My TSIO-360-MB also runs on the low side for oil temp. Savvy shows me as pretty normal compared with 9,000 other M20K's, but on the low end. The December flights in the sub-140's were ground runs troubleshooting a turbo issue.

[Ragsf15e]

2 hours ago, Z W said:

I'd like to know the answer. My TSIO-360-MB also runs on the low side for oil temp. Savvy shows me as pretty normal compared with 9,000 other M20K's, but on the low end. The December flights in the sub-140's were ground runs troubleshooting a turbo issue.

Mine’s another 20 degrees cooler.  I might try to cover some of the cooler with metal tape and see how it goes.  Sure Id like to see exactly 180, but the oil analysis shows no water and I see steam/vapor coming out when I open the cap after shutdown.  I get the feeling it’s hot enough.

[Falcon Man]

I have 2 different sizes of plates I use to cover my oil cooler. One is 1/2  and the other is 1/4 of the surface of the cooler. These definitely increase the indicated oil temperature on my EDM 900. And work like a charm depending on the season.

I consider them a less expensive version of the Mooney weatherization kit made specifically for M20K's SN:1000-and on.

[Pinecone]

On 5/16/2025 at 1:03 PM, Falcon Man said:

I believe your SB engine is different because my TCM manual doesn't cover the SB, it stops at MB. Clearly, my sending unit is on the inflow.

However, now I will have to call TCM and verify the wording in the manual which says the temp sensing bulb is actually in the case on MB engines. I now am having "over-analysis paralysis".

 

The only differences between the -MB and the -SB are the max RPM and max boost level.   You can convert a -MB to a -SB totally outside the engine.

[Pinecone]

On 5/15/2025 at 7:59 PM, Ragsf15e said:

Wow, i like the way your g3x is setup.  Mine has the engine instrumentation on the left side.  Id prefer like yours so it is consistent when you bring up the split screen engine page, they will be on the same side as they were before. Also, yours has more information on it, but I see you don’t have all 6CHT‘s or EGT‘s or ff which mine does. I didn’t realize that could be customized.

Also, do you know what fuel flow you were running there?

He has things that are not supposed to be shown.

I wanted TIT, but Garmin says no.

I prefer my engine strip on the left as it puts the PFD directly in front of me.

[Ragsf15e]

Yeah i wanted tit on the strip as well but can’t.  I did move the strip to the right and like it there although it does move the pfd off center.

[hubcap]

If I am not mistaken the TIT is required for the 231 but not the 252 or Encore, which is why I have it on my display.