Two gear up landings within 2 days of each other - M20C at KFNL & M20M at KPAE.

[Mooney in Oz]

https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/500642

https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/500635

[Rwsavory]

The C in Colorado had a Johnson bar. Very well-equipped. Looking at FlightAware, it appears they were doing multiple touch and goes.

Don’t do that. 

[Aaviationist]

8 hours ago, Rwsavory said:

The C in Colorado had a Johnson bar. Very well-equipped. Looking at FlightAware, it appears they were doing multiple touch and goes.

Don’t do that. 

Yawn. Touch and goes are a normal part of training and staying current and proficient.   There is nothing wrong either way touch and goes.  

[Brian2034]

15 hours ago, Aaviationist said:

Yawn. Touch and goes are a normal part of training and staying current and proficient.   There is nothing wrong either way touch and goes.  

I agree if you want to be proficient you practice, in Canada you must have 5 takeoffs and landing every 6 months to stay current to take passengers. And if you fly at night you have to do the same at night to stay current to take passengers.

In our area we consider a good flying day anything with  30 knots of wind or less, there’s always a crosswind and or a good gust component. 

Proficiency in landing/ crosswind procedures are the most important part of flying here!

If you wait for calm days or winds directly down the runway you don’t fly here. ( CYYT)

Just my 2 cents

[Hank]

47 minutes ago, Brian2034 said:

I agree if you want to be proficient you practice, in Canada you must have 5 takeoffs and landing every 6 months to stay current to take passengers. And if you fly at night you have to do the same at night to stay current to take passengers.

Here in the U.S., currency for passengers is 3 landings in the previous 90 days; night currency is 3 landings to a full stop in the last 90 days.

It's not super windy where I am, but there are places where 30 knot winds are uncommonly frequent. 

[1980Mooney]

15 hours ago, Rwsavory said:

The C in Colorado had a Johnson bar. Very well-equipped. Looking at FlightAware, it appears they were doing multiple touch and goes.

Don’t do that. 

It's not just the T&G's.  Unfortunately this is a recently purchased plane and an even newer pilot that was in training when the plane was purchased.  The plane showed up in Loveland on Sep. 9, 2024 and was registered in October.  Owner got his Pilot ticket this January.  You can see what appear to be some training flights in between.

Yes it is well equipped.  N6099Q, a 1965 M20C has been all dolled up to look like a short body M20J. - 201 windsheild, J style cowling, wing tips, J style yokes, panel and glareshield that looks like a J with the bump in it, Aspen ProMax 2500, S-Tec autopilot, etc

https://www.aircraft.com/aircraft/233105531/n6099q-1966-mooney-m20c-mark-21

If you look at his tracks it looks like he was always forcing the Mooney to land.  Too fast, too high, diving descents and floating down the runway.  An 8,500 ft x 100 ft. runway spoils any pilot - it accommodates a lot of sloppiness when landing.:

• The Tower had just closed a few minutes before N6099Q took off. 
  • He announced on CTAF that the was going to "stay in the pattern and fly touch and goes"
• On every landing he would cross the runway threshold at about 50-75 ft. AGL.
• Based on altitude and speed, it appears that he would always touch down about 1,500 - 1,750 ft down the runway from the threshold on the 8,500 ft x 100 ft runway.
• When turning Final he would initially descend at about -900 fpm.  Many of the Final descents were varying between 500-900 fpm.  Sometimes he would slow the descent to 300 fpm. only to increase near the runway.  On the 3rd T&G, he extended his Base but his turn to Final was initially at -2,000 fpm.  The rate then slowed to -1,400 and then -1.200 fpm.
• His speed on Final was initially 91- 103 kts airspeed with the exception of the 4th at 86 kts on a Shorter Final
• On his 1st T&G, it appears that he was doing about 86 kts airspeed over the runway threshold and descending at -640 fpm over the threshold.  (Groundspeed was 81 kts plus weather showed a headwind straight down the runway of 6 mph).
• On his 3rd T&G he followed too close behind N2973B, a BE-35 that was on Final landing for a full stop.  Since the Bo was still on Runway 15 and turning off, he intentionally balked the landing.  Instead of immediately climbing to pattern altitude along along the centerline,  he drifted right of the runway just before the threshold and flew parallel R-15 about 100 ft. to the right and at about 150 AGL the entire lenght. (He announced his intention to balk on the CTAF). 
• The gear up landing occurred on the 5th T&G which was intended to be the last touch one. (which he announced that on the CTAF)
  • On this final  (5th) T&G, he turned Base to Final at about 91 kts airspeed and at -1,025 fpm descent rate.
  • Rate of descent dropped to about -600 fpm then back up to about -900 fpm and then dropping to around -500 fpm while maintaining about 89 kts airspeed.
  • I calculated his angle of descent to be 4.3 degrees to his approx. 1,500 ft "displaced Touchdown point"..
  • Over the runway threshold he was about 83 kts airspeed, at about 50 ft AGL and still descending at about -450 fpm
• On the CTAF he announced that he bellied in, skidded off the Runway 15 and wound up clear of the runway and in the grass.

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a7ec50&lat=40.457&lon=-104.988&zoom=13.5&showTrace=2025-04-20&trackLabels&timestamp=1745109083

Edited yesterday at 04:09 AM by 1980Mooney

[1980Mooney]

On 4/22/2025 at 10:30 PM, Mooney in Oz said:

https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/500642

https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/500635

The second one, the Bravo is actually still in the MooneySpace Classifieds.  The OP who posted it has not returned since February.  It was posted in ASO.com at the beginning of the year but it is no longer there.  Unknown if it got sold.

[midlifeflyer]

12 hours ago, Aaviationist said:

Yawn. Touch and goes are a normal part of training and staying current and proficient.   There is nothing wrong either way touch and goes.  

Without getting into the touch & go right or wrong battle, there will be far more proficiency created by a single gusty crosswind landing than 10 maneuvers created to fit more landing into a given amount of time. 

[Hank]

37 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

Without getting into the touch & go right or wrong battle, there will be far more proficiency created by a single gusty crosswind landing than 10 maneuvers created to fit more landing into a given amount of time. 

Great! Can I please have some gusty crosswinds later this morning? If only it was so easy--we train and practice when we can, and accept whatever the winds and weather happen to be.

Any practice is better than no practice. And new pilots have to learn sometime, or should we sit around not flying while we wait on the desired winds for maximum learning?

[skykrawler]

14 hours ago, Aaviationist said:

Yawn. Touch and goes are a normal part of training and staying current and proficient.   There is nothing wrong either way touch and goes.  

Heh heh,  When I read it, I thought he meant don't land with the gear up.

I can't remember the last time I did patterns.    But landing practice needs to start with speed control practice.  Isn't that part of primary training?

As for landing long - perhaps not in this case, but I will landing long to avoid extended time taxing on the runway.

[midlifeflyer]

9 hours ago, Hank said:

Great! Can I please have some gusty crosswinds later this morning? If only it was so easy--we train and practice when we can, and accept whatever the winds and weather happen to be.

Any practice is better than no practice. And new pilots have to learn sometime, or should we sit around not flying while we wait on the desired winds for maximum learning?

Of course not. But it’s usually a good idea to understand what your practice is giving you.

[A64Pilot]

It seems to me that T&G’s aren’t actually the root cause of most of Mooney gear-ups.

It’s very junior pilots that in my opinion shouldn’t be in a complex aircraft, actually now I think of it the gear ups sort of make my point.

Now I admit that anyone no matter how experienced can gear up, the FAA has a name for it, they call it SLOJ for sudden loss of judgement, but it’s something that is more likely for someone who is in over their head, if your having trouble landing, you are in over your head. A Mooney is actually I think a very forgiving and easy aircraft to fly and land, but it doesn’t land like a C-172.

[hammdo]

Gotta wonder if a LHS or Bitchen’ Betty linked to gear down would be better than gear horn. 3 one in a wee, ouch… - assuming all we’re gear forgotten…

-Don