Nose Gear Towing Damage Poll

[201er]

A lot of concerns posted about FBO towing a Mooney and I know it happens. But how common is it really?

Have you had damage? Who caused it? Did you warn them about towing limits or have a sign? Who ended up paying?

[wombat]

@201er You are all over these polls recently!   

[201er]

I’ve been flying my Mooney over 12 years and haven’t had an issue with FBOs moving my plane during the occasional trip. Sometimes I mention the limited turn radius or ask them not to tow. Other times I show up and they towed unexpectedly and I didn’t get to say a word. I don’t have any signs or go to the lengths some do.

Whenever I mention it to the line guys, they say “yeah, we’ve had a Mooney before so we are aware and will make very shallow turns”. Awareness does seem pretty good at FBOs because you guys raise such a stink about it.

I do usually check the gear after being moved at an FBO. Sometimes I’ll take pictures of the gear truss when I shut down if I think the place is sketchy or going to move it a lot.

I wonder if folks with signs, locks, emailing FBOs, or going through the other lengths have had prior damage leading them to that, unreasonably paranoid, or justifiably paranoid because it’s a common occurrence.

[hammdo]

I ask them when I land if they are familiar - and take a pic. Taking a pic seems to ‘help’ as a reminder. Most of the places I’ve been to are very aware and has not been an issue. I do have the ‘mod’ on the front…

-Don

[Buckster]

I mention it to the line guys at my airport as a refresher.   Maintenance should also be reminded because we are all human!

[MikeOH]

When I land I try to park AWAY from the front of the FBO as much as possible.  Then I ask if they are going to need to move my plane.  If so, I ask where they want it and move it myself.  Then ask/tell them NOT move it again with a reminder of how easy it is to damage and how expensive it is to fix!

[ArtVandelay]

I mention it and the response is always along the lines “oh yeah, we know”.

I have the protective stops, so I think it must have happened to a previous owner.

[EricJ]

53 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I mention it and the response is always along the lines “oh yeah, we know”.

I mentioned that Mooneys have tight steering limits to one guy that was hooking up to move my airplane out of a hangar and he said, "They all do."

[201er]

There’s a bunch of “Someone else caused it” votes. If not the FBO and not you (or one of your partners), then who would be towing your plane to cause it? The airport? 

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

I mentioned that Mooneys have tight steering limits to one guy that was hooking up to move my airplane out of a hangar and he said, "They all do."

Cirrus nose wheel turns 108 degrees either direction. Mooney only 11 degrees left and 13 degrees right. I think that asymmetry can throw  someone off - especially if making S-turns or side to side deflection while backing. (Especially on a power tug or tractor). Pushing the nose wheel left turn the extra 2 degrees to 13 degrees like the right (to where someone eyeballed the right turn deflection) will bend the truss tube. 
 

Service Instructions SIM20-137 says “Towing by tractor or other powered equipment is NOT RECOMMENDED. ”

That is just not realistic. 

[EricJ]

52 minutes ago, 201er said:

There’s a bunch of “Someone else caused it” votes. If not the FBO and not you (or one of your partners), then who would be towing your plane to cause it? The airport? 

Wherever the fingers point. 

[Max Clark]

16 hours ago, 201er said:

A lot of concerns posted about FBO towing a Mooney and I know it happens. But how common is it really?

Have you had damage? Who caused it? Did you warn them about towing limits or have a sign? Who ended up paying?

The seller of my plane had an FBO damage the nose gear when towing. Made it a big point to make sure I never let anyone tow the plane.

[Mooneymite]

Choice three perhaps should be, "FBO damage, but I chose to not submit insurance claim"?

 

[1980Mooney]

2 minutes ago, Max Clark said:

The seller of my plane had an FBO damage the nose gear when towing. Made it a big point to make sure I never let anyone tow the plane.

That's great advice although it is just not realistic if your are actually trying to use a Mooney as a traveling machine.  There are times when my plane needed to go into a heated hangar to melt the accumulated snow and ice off before a winter return flight.  Other times, a sudden severe weather change necessitated towing the plane into a hangar.  Some busy FBO's logistics don't work for the owner to move it themselves.  You cannot be there all the time, everytime.

[1980Mooney]

12 hours ago, 201er said:

There’s a bunch of “Someone else caused it” votes. If not the FBO and not you (or one of your partners), then who would be towing your plane to cause it? The airport? 

 

12 hours ago, EricJ said:

Wherever the fingers point. 

It's possible that they mean "former owner".  When I first inspected the J that I ultimately purchased, I reached down to feel the back of the tubes on nose steering truss.  I felt a flat dent.  I mentioned it to the partners owning it who was standing there.  He reached down and confirmed the dented tube with a simultaneous look of shock and anger and said "We just had the nose gear repaired last month because it was over-turned and bent by the FBO.  The FBO paid for repair.  I don't think that it has even been flown since the reapir.  The same FBO dented it again."

[Max Clark]

1 hour ago, 1980Mooney said:

That's great advice although it is just not realistic if your are actually trying to use a Mooney as a traveling machine.  There are times when my plane needed to go into a heated hangar to melt the accumulated snow and ice off before a winter return flight.  Other times, a sudden severe weather change necessitated towing the plane into a hangar.  Some busy FBO's logistics don't work for the owner to move it themselves.  You cannot be there all the time, everytime.

I don't know what to do about it, except he managed to make me extra paranoid about it

[201er]

1 hour ago, Mooneymite said:

Choice three perhaps should be, "FBO damage, but I chose to not submit insurance claim"?

 

Some people may be uninsured or I wonder if insurance denied it? Or it went unnoticed for a while and by the time it was discovered, no telling where it came from? Would be nice if people would explain their votes.

Edited September 6 by 201er

[Mooneymite]

1 hour ago, 201er said:

Some people may be uninsured or I wonder if insurance denied it? Or it went unnoticed for a while and by the time it was discovered, no telling where it came from? Would be nice if people would explain their votes.

It would also be interesting to see if the LASAR modified truss with the stops is getting damaged.  After I installed one, I had my doubts about it, so I continued to park with my "Do not tow" sign in place.

[201er]

1 minute ago, Mooneymite said:

It would also be interesting to see if the LASAR modified truss with the stops is getting damaged.  After I installed one, I had my doubts about it, so I continued to park with my "Do not tow" sign in place.

Well, go ahead and drop it off at Signature for a week without the sign and report back

[47U]

Is it possible to dent the truss with only the hand tow bar?  The 1/32” limit isn’t very much.  Since 2008, my airplane has only been moved under tug one time, by Dugosh at KERV.  I doubt they exceeded the limits.  The previous 35 years under the prior owner, I don’t know.  

I pulled the nose gear out to clean up the slop in the bolts, bushings, biscuits, and paint (obviously). The replacement from LASAR is due to ship any day… I’m looking forward to installing a truss with the steering stops and I’ve got the steering limit pointer SB on hand.

 

[MikeOH]

50 minutes ago, 201er said:

Well, go ahead and drop it off at Signature for a week without the sign and report back

With that plan you stand a good chance of finding out a dented truss is the least of your problems

[Mooneymite]

4 hours ago, 201er said:

Well, go ahead and drop it off at Signature for a week without the sign and report back

Anyone who has replaced a nose gear truss knows that once in a lifetime is enough.  No thank you.

[N201MKTurbo]

I try real hard to keep the FBOs from towing my plane. I always ask where they are going to park it and then just taxi it and park it. I had one FBO (Branson MO) chase after me and tell me I wasn't allowed to park the plane myself. I kept going and did it anyway.

Signature at KMDW bent mine and refused to do anything about it. They had a mechanic come out and look at it and he said it was fine. It was dented in about 1/4 inch. Then they said it was that way before I got there. it wasn't. 

This was before everybody had a camera in their pocket. I have taken pictures of it if I don't trust the FBO to not move it. It seems like the bigger the FBO, the more likely they are to damage it.

Back then (1995) Laser would fix one for $300. and contrary to some comments above, changing them isn't that hard.

[N201MKTurbo]

I saw one down in Tucson that got whacked. It had the stops. It busted them right off.

[Hank]

5 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

It would also be interesting to see if the LASAR modified truss with the stops is getting damaged.

Depends on what us being used to town, and the length of the towbar. The longer the towbar, the more torque it creates when turning, and the easier it is to cause damage.

Like what @N201MKTurbo posted above, likely done with a large tractor and a long towbar.