Starter Solenoid for Lycoming O-360-A1D

[Greg Ellis]

Before you respond, I wrote down the wrong thing in the title.  I am looking for the master solenoid, not the starter solenoid.  Sorry about the confusion.  I have a 63 C model with an O-360-A1D.  What is the correct master solenoid?  I have searched Mooneyspace and I am getting conflicting answers.  Mine is giving out and I need a new one.  The one that is on my airplane is a Lamar p/n X61-0028.  Aircraft spruce says this is a non FAA/pma approved part and I can find no logbook entry of when this one was installed.

I want to make sure I put the right thing back on.  Can I use another of the same p/n or do I need to go with something like this which is FAA pma approved.  Thank you for any advice.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/sts-12s24s.php?clickkey=7013673

[Rwsavory]

It should be FAA-PMA unless you find an original part.

[Greg Ellis]

22 minutes ago, Rwsavory said:

It should be FAA-PMA unless you find an original part. BTW, I don’t think the Lamar part on your plane is a starter solenoid. It appears to be a master solenoid. If it’s being used for the starter, that might be part of the problem.

You are correct.  I will edit my post to reflect that.  It is the master solenoid.

[Yetti]

23 minutes ago, Rwsavory said:

It should be FAA-PMA unless you find an original part. BTW, I don’t think the Lamar part on your plane is a starter solenoid. It appears to be a master solenoid. If it’s being used for the starter, that might be part of the problem.

Master solenoids are constant duty for the mooney usually 200 amp.    They would be a better starter solenoid than an intermittent duty starter ones.   So not part of the problem.   As far as "going out"   Not sure how that is being determined.    solenoids are pretty binary.   So the battery could be getting weak or a ground is failing would be a better bet.  

as far as a replacement any starter solenoid should do.   The originals were usually a Cutler and Hammer brand.     At one point I found the Master solenoid for my 75 at McMaster Carr, but have not seen it recently.    Oh look there is one on ebay.   https://www.ebay.com/itm/325655658606

There is no way I would buy the ebay one.

But you might find the part number and cross reference to DgiKey and or McMaster Carr.

[47U]

2 hours ago, Greg Ellis said:

I am looking for the master solenoid, not the starter solenoid.  Sorry about the confusion.  

Mx manual 106 (‘68C model) shows the master solenoid (relay) as a Cutler Hammer pn 6041 H 231.  Several available used searching on controller.com… or new FAA-PMA Sky-Tec on Aircraft Spruce.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/07-03566.php

[Greg Ellis]

50 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Master solenoids are constant duty for the mooney usually 200 amp.    They would be a better starter solenoid than an intermittent duty starter ones.   So not part of the problem.   As far as "going out"   Not sure how that is being determined.    solenoids are pretty binary.   So the battery could be getting weak or a ground is failing would be a better bet.  

as far as a replacement any starter solenoid should do.   The originals were usually a Cutler and Hammer brand.     At one point I found the Master solenoid for my 75 at McMaster Carr, but have not seen it recently.    Oh look there is one on ebay.   https://www.ebay.com/itm/325655658606

There is no way I would buy the ebay one.

But you might find the part number and cross reference to DgiKey and or McMaster Carr.

So, it started when I would turn on the master switch and the solenoid would click on and off multiple times.  I would turn the switch off then immediately back on and all is good.  A flight last Friday revealed no issues and it seemed to work fine.  Yesterday, turned on the master switch and nothing.  No power at all.  No clicking no nothing.  Turned it back off then back on again and it was fine.  Worked like nothing was wrong.  So I thought it was the master solenoid going bad. 

[Greg Ellis]

19 minutes ago, 47U said:

Mx manual 106 (‘68C model) shows the master solenoid (relay) as a Cutler Hammer pn 6041 H 231.  Several available used searching on controller.com… or new FAA-PMA Sky-Tec on Aircraft Spruce.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pnpages/07-03566.php

Thanks.  I saw that same part number in the IPC but could not find an updated number for it.  Thanks for the info.

[47U]

42 minutes ago, Greg Ellis said:

Yesterday, turned on the master switch and nothing.  No power at all.  No clicking no nothing.  Turned it back off then back on again and it was fine.  Worked like nothing was wrong.  So I thought it was the master solenoid going bad. 

It’s the intermittent stuff that drives me nuts.  What does the ‘action’ feel like on the master switch?  Is it… snappy?  Otherwise, Yetti has good advice, check all the terminal connections on the master switch and master solenoid.  Including grounds.  

Please let us know what you find out.

[Greg Ellis]

55 minutes ago, 47U said:

It’s the intermittent stuff that drives me nuts.  What does the ‘action’ feel like on the master switch?  Is it… snappy?  Otherwise, Yetti has good advice, check all the terminal connections on the master switch and master solenoid.  Including grounds.  

Please let us know what you find out.

The switch itself feels fine.  I will troubleshoot a little more next weekend.  Thanks for the advice from everyone.

[Yetti]

7 hours ago, Greg Ellis said:

So, it started when I would turn on the master switch and the solenoid would click on and off multiple times.  I would turn the switch off then immediately back on and all is good.  A flight last Friday revealed no issues and it seemed to work fine.  Yesterday, turned on the master switch and nothing.  No power at all.  No clicking no nothing.  Turned it back off then back on again and it was fine.  Worked like nothing was wrong.  So I thought it was the master solenoid going bad. 

still sounds like wiring.    Would still check the grounds and such.   All connections should be shiny bright.     Try jumping the solenoid from battery hot to contact.  

 

in my parts spreadsheet I have this.

here is some info:  http://mooneyspace.com/topic/3437-spec-sheet-for-cutler-hammer-6041h231/

and if you can get your mechanic to agree it is a "standard part" (It has no TSO, PMA, or Milspec) and the 6041H105 meets or exceeds the original specs, then the 6041H105 may work.

Master Relay     eaton "6041h105"

 

Oh look when I search the Eaton part number I find this.   https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/solenoid_6041H105.php?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwmrqzBhAoEiwAXVpgokHVB0I9c-9YozfNvSmlGTZJzP5fLZNCXGUuRe-E-QhAfqTq_vYQoBoClf4QAvD_BwE

Edited June 16 by Yetti

[Greg Ellis]

3 hours ago, Yetti said:

still sounds like wiring.    Would still check the grounds and such.   All connections should be shiny bright.     Try jumping the solenoid from battery hot to contact.  

 

in my parts spreadsheet I have this.

here is some info:  http://mooneyspace.com/topic/3437-spec-sheet-for-cutler-hammer-6041h231/

and if you can get your mechanic to agree it is a "standard part" (It has no TSO, PMA, or Milspec) and the 6041H105 meets or exceeds the original specs, then the 6041H105 may work.

Master Relay     eaton "6041h105"

 

Oh look when I search the Eaton part number I find this.   https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/solenoid_6041H105.php?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwmrqzBhAoEiwAXVpgokHVB0I9c-9YozfNvSmlGTZJzP5fLZNCXGUuRe-E-QhAfqTq_vYQoBoClf4QAvD_BwE

Thank you.  I will check this out next weekend.  That Eaton part, however, looks nothing like what is on the plane right now.  However it is the correct part number according to the IPC.

[Yetti]

2 hours ago, Greg Ellis said:

Thank you.  I will check this out next weekend.  That Eaton part, however, looks nothing like what is on the plane right now.  However it is the correct part number according to the IPC.

Looks exactly like is what is on my 75 F model

[cliffy]

A Master Solenoid is not a Standard Part by definition as there is no industry wide design spec for manufacture

that meets SAE, MS, AN or other nationally recognized  design. that anyone can match to make the part (think

AN bolts as they are Standard Parts  that meet an AN Standard for quality). 

There is a reason why you can't find a log book entry for installation. Think about it. 

A diligent search will turn up the certified part

I had to go through the same path a couple years ago. 

A PMA one can be found. 

Before you do the parts cannon approach though do check the wiring and switches for continuity, connection

security and operation by using,  a volt meter to find voltage drops. Many times its nothing more than a loose

connection on the Master Switch but it can also be a failure like I had.