Window and door seals

[Will.iam]

I love my inflatable door seal. Dugosh installed it for me at my first annual and it’s excellent at stopping drafts and noise. I have it in my check list to deflate it on short final that way i don’t accidentally forget to before opening the door which in this texas heat is right after touch down to get ventilation in the cabin. The sound difference is so dramatic i have to brief new passengers before i deflate it or the extra noise will make them jump. Some day i need to fly with a sound meter and measure the before and  after sound levels as it is very noticeable. 

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

4 minutes ago, Will.iam said:

I love my inflatable door seal. Dugosh installed it for me at my first annual and it’s excellent at stopping drafts and noise. I have it in my check list to deflate it on short final that way i don’t accidentally forget to before opening the door which in this texas heat is right after touch down to get ventilation in the cabin. The sound difference is so dramatic i have to brief new passengers before i deflate it or the extra noise will make them jump. Some day i need to fly with a sound meter and measure the before and  after sound levels as it is very noticeable. 

The door was never designed for that type of seal as it has no cutout design to deflate the bulb when static.

This places added stress to the hinges .

 

look at the door on these aircraft that were designed for a inflatable seal

P210

Columbia/ legacy/ lancair

58P

These have a extra latch and channel in the door .

 

 

[Will.iam]

39 minutes ago, Gee Bee Aeroproducts said:

The door was never designed for that type of seal as it has no cutout design to deflate the bulb when static.

This places added stress to the hinges .

 

look at the door on these aircraft that were designed for a inflatable seal

P210

Columbia/ legacy/ lancair

58P

These have a extra latch and channel in the door .

 

 

And having a silicone seal that distorts the door by having 16th of an inch into the slipstream that the door can not compress is better? As everyone says the doors are not a perfect fit and are for lack of a better word flimsy. The inflatable is by very function more flexible than a rubber or silicone seal and you control the firmness with the number of pumps of air into the seal. I only inflate until the noise goes away. If i kept pumping i could probably get my door edge into the slipstream too. If my hinge fails then i will replace it but going on three years now and it looks good functions well and the benefit outweigh negatives until i see more data of this failing hinge as you are the only one that i have heard of this happening to compared to the hundreds of installations i haven’t heard of anyone else having this issue. 

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

1 minute ago, Will.iam said:

And having a silicone seal that distorts the door by having 16th of an inch into the slipstream that the door can not compress is better? As everyone says the doors are not a perfect fit and are for lack of a better word flimsy. The inflatable is by very function more flexible than a rubber or silicone seal and you control the firmness with the number of pumps of air into the seal. I only inflate until the noise goes away. If i kept pumping i could probably get my door edge into the slipstream too. If my hinge fails then i will replace it but going on three years now and it looks good functions well and the benefit outweigh negatives until i see more data of this failing hinge as you are the only one that i have heard of this happening to compared to the hundreds of installations i haven’t heard of anyone else having this issue. 

Your welcome to ask Jim Klug at DBM that repairs doors and hinges on the beech models for over thirty years.

I would not sell a inflatable seal for a door not designed for this application, I would not want the product liability of the installation.

You may install whatever you want , the original design is always the best profile for the door .

I did the same per the original print for P baron and mu2 , both have a door that is built like a feeezer door .

 

[Danb]

I didn’t put the inflatable seal on my Acclaim although I had it on my Bravo for over 15 years with no issues hurting the door, most Mooney doors fit poorly for some reason,I just put a new OEM seal on the Acclaim which I’ve doctored up with strips of seal. They build a great plane except for the door issues. Of the four Mooneys I’ve owned only my ‘77 J had a decent seal. Something happened to the fit post 1977.

[Will.iam]

4 hours ago, Gee Bee Aeroproducts said:

Your welcome to ask Jim Klug at DBM that repairs doors and hinges on the beech models for over thirty years.

I would not sell a inflatable seal for a door not designed for this application, I would not want the product liability of the installation.

You may install whatever you want , the original design is always the best profile for the door .

I did the same per the original print for P baron and mu2 , both have a door that is built like a feeezer door .

 

Fair enough. 

[M20F]

The best is when you climb through rain with your turbo, get to FL210, and upon landing finding your door is frozen shut and you need to climb out the baggage door.

Nothing beats a good door seal….

[PT20J]

10% seal; 90% placement. If it leaks air or water, usually the seal is too far from the edge. If the door is hard to shut, or the seal protrudes into the gap between the door and the fuselage, it’s too close to the edge. This assumes that the door latches are properly adjusted. If the door is tweaked by portly persons using it to hoist themselves during egress, then it may need shimming in some locations. 

[shawnd]

@PT20J any chance you can share a shot of your door and seal placement? Will try to mimic it on mine 

[PT20J]

Just now, shawnd said:

@PT20J any chance you can share a shot of your door and seal placement? Will try to mimic it on mine 

Just search MS; I’ve explained it several times. It took me three tries to figure it out. In general, using the Brown T-9088 seal, I applied it so that the centerline of the bulb was on the rivet line where the inner and outer door skins are attached on the top and sides. The bottom is the hardest and the trick is to follow the contours of the door frame and not the door because they are not the same - especially the radii of the corners. When done, you can test the fit by closing the door on a piece of typing paper. The paper should be very difficult to pull out. If not, reposition the seal or shim it as required. (You can cut a piece off the tail of an unused piece of seal to use as a shim. The yellow 3M glue has enough open time to allow repositioning. And don’t use too much glue. A thin coat on each surface is all you need. Clean the seal off with denatured alcohol first to get a good bond. Then leave the door shut for a day or two. Initially it will be hard to close, but the seal will take a set and mold to the space between the door and the frame and eventually the door will be easy to close and won’t leak.

 

[shawnd]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

In general, using the Brown T-9088 seal, I applied it so that the centerline of the bulb was on the rivet line where the inner and outer door skins are attached on the top and sides. 

I think this is the piece that was missing before, in this thread for sure. Thanks!

[wombat]

After messaging back and forth with someone from the company that produced my door seal (Knots2U, A.K.A. Aircraftdoorseals.com), his best suggestion is to take some sticky-backed foam and put a layer on the door frame side.   I'm not excited about this because it'll get torn up pretty darned quick. I'm considering abandoning it and removing it and installing the inflatable one.

[shawnd]

Yeah that sounds like a stop gap solution. @wombat have you tried the Mooney seals?

[Niko182]

On 7/6/2024 at 6:07 AM, jetdriven said:

you can get a factory door seal from LASAR now, and aside from the newest thin wall Gee Bee seal, its the only thing that works.

I have the old Gee Bee seal, that had a slightly thicker wall. is the thinner one worthwhile? my door doesn't seal completely because the bottom is too thick to allow the door to close completely flush, so I have a bit of wind noise coming through the door.

[jetdriven]

the thicker gee bee P-shaped seal wont allow the door to close.  The newer one barely does.

[Niko182]

3 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

the thicker gee bee P-shaped seal wont allow the door to close.  The newer one barely does.

Would you recommend switching it? Have you heard anything about this @Gee Bee Aeroproducts?

[Schllc]

On 7/18/2024 at 10:07 PM, PT20J said:

10% seal; 90% placement

This is the truth.

On the third door seal I installed,  I figured out using painters tape to place the seal and a flashlight from the inside to see where it wasn’t touching, illustrates where to move the seal for the glue portion of the process. 
Any gaps after that I use the 1/4” weatherstripping from Home Depot to close them, and . 
it works really well. 
I am sure with enough time and patience you could get the seal placed perfectly, but after four days of trial and error I gave in and cheated with the weatherstripping. 
For what it’s worth, geebee’s seals are really nice but they do not compress much at all, and I had an issue with the hinge side of my door barely fitting the factory seal. It would just not accommodate the silicone seal. It worked wonderfully on the baggage door.

If I ever change another one I will try the inflatable. I don’t see how it can hurt the door if it is not over inflated. 

[wombat]

22 hours ago, shawnd said:

Yeah that sounds like a stop gap solution. @wombat have you tried the Mooney seals?

Are you talking about this one?   https://lasar.com/seals-gaskets/cabin-door-seal-912018-001

[shawnd]

Yep, I ordered a set a few week ago for my A/C.

[shawnd]

You can call and switch to parts and will likely get Heather. She can find the right parts for you and get it ordered. Online site is not always up to date with latest inventory information.

[wombat]

3 minutes ago, shawnd said:

Yep, I ordered a set a few week ago for my A/C.

Can you post some pictures when you get it installed?

[shawnd]

Sure - but that might take a while. Plane is in the shop for avionics work, ETA end of Oct/early Nov.

[wombat]

Update:     The folks at knots2U (aircraftdoorseals.com) said they have a thicker profile door seal that they'll send me at no cost as a replacement.   I'm on the hook to remove the existing one and install the new one, but this sounds like a great solution to me; I'll update this again when this change has been made.

 

@shawnd No, I had not tried that one yet.  I think if this new thicker seal doesn't work for me I'll just go to the inflatable one.  But I'll keep it as a backup plan!

[shawnd]

Thanks for letting us know @wombat! I should have asked too. Will try the stock Mooney ones for now I guess 

[wombat]

I got the old door seal removed last weekend, but the old (like 3 months old) sealant was still there.   Got up to the plane today and finished getting it cleaned off, and got the new seal dry-fitted.    The door is very tight now, I might have a tough time closing it from the inside.  So I've left it closed overnight and will check it again tomorrow before I glue it on.  I'm quite confident this will work well after a few weeks or months of tough door closing.   I can't express how excited I am to have the door sealing well.

 

The old seal is probably still usable but it's pretty ugly.  I'll keep it around just in case.