Oops. Big money ouch.

[Mcstealth]

The FBO in Kerrville had a big ouch on the tarmac last month.  Pushing a big jet out of the FBO's hangar, the lineman forgot to peg the tow bar on the tug. The pavement has a negative camber immediately outside the hangar doors. Gravity took over, the jet gained some speed and port side engine of the big jet jammed itself in and through the cockpit of a slightly smaller big jet that was parked on the opposite side of the tarmac.

I know accidents happen. I know that the FBO's insurance will take a big hit. I fear the trickle down economics in a sense.

 

[201er]

Good luck if it’s Signature! 

[Ragsf15e]

38 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

The FBO in Kerrville had a big ouch on the tarmac last month.  Pushing a big jet out of the FBO's hangar, the lineman forgot to peg the tow bar on the tug. The pavement has a negative camber immediately outside the hangar doors. Gravity took over, the jet gained some speed and port side engine of the big jet jammed itself in and through the cockpit of a slightly smaller big jet that was parked on the opposite side of the tarmac.

I know accidents happen. I know that the FBO's insurance will take a big hit. I fear the trickle down economics in a sense.

 

I saw a picture of a hanger with 3 large corporate jets filled roughly 15 feet high (maybe higher, but it was remarkably high) with fire retardant foam.  Several of the jets had open doors when this happened…. There was no fire.  Fbo was having the fire system checked out.

[Texas Mooney]

3 hours ago, 201er said:

Good luck if it’s Signature! 

It's owned by Joe Kennedy of Kerrville, TX

https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-kennedy-b388b114

JOSEPH L. KENNEDY ENTERPRISES, LTD. :: Texas (US) :: OpenCorporates

[Schllc]

12 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

I saw a picture of a hanger with 3 large corporate jets filled roughly 15 feet high (maybe higher, but it was remarkably high) with fire retardant foam.  Several of the jets had open doors when this happened…. There was no fire.  Fbo was having the fire system checked out.

My understanding is that totals the airplane. 
our local airport made this system mandatory for new hangars years ago, but after two system malfunctions here, one with planes, one without, they are rethinking the requirements. Apparently statistically these are doing more damage than actual plane fires.

[takair]

1 hour ago, Schllc said:

My understanding is that totals the airplane. 
our local airport. Add this system mandatory for new hangars years ago, but after two system malfunctions here, one with planes, one without, they are rethinking the requirements. Apparently statistically these are doing more damage than actual plane fires.

I believe it is just expensive cleanup. Might approach total if the airplane cabin doors were open. I know that the FBO I worked for years ago had it happen and all of the airplanes were serviced and continued to be operational. 

[Schllc]

That was not the case here, three jets in the hangar, all totaled.  
the empty hangar had over $1,000,000 in damage and cleanup, with no planes in the hangar. Apparently that foam is some nasty stuff. 
This feels like a solution looking for a problem.  
I just don’t believe hangar fires are that common, especially with jet-a. 
while it is combustible, it is nothing like gasoline. 

[takair]

30 minutes ago, Schllc said:

That was not the case here, three jets in the hangar, all totaled.  
the empty hangar had over $1,000,000 in damage and cleanup, with no planes in the hangar. Apparently that foam is some nasty stuff. 
This feels like a solution looking for a problem.  
I just don’t believe hangar fires are that common, especially with jet-a. 
while it is combustible, it is nothing like gasoline. 

I agree, it seems like an overkill solution with too many downsides.  In the situation I’m familiar with, the mechanics were servicing a janitrol heater which somehow shot flames out the exhaust and triggered the system.  There was no “real” fire, nor do I think there was a risk of one. I think they were all company freight planes in that hangar, likely under-insured….so the motivation to keep them flying may have been different.  Does any other industry use this system?  Factories…etc?  

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, takair said:

I agree, it seems like an overkill solution with too many downsides.  In the situation I’m familiar with, the mechanics were servicing a janitrol heater which somehow shot flames out the exhaust and triggered the system.  There was no “real” fire, nor do I think there was a risk of one. I think they were all company freight planes in that hangar, likely under-insured….so the motivation to keep them flying may have been different.  Does any other industry use this system?  Factories…etc?  

The military does and I have seen accidents happen with it there too.  A fighter buried up to its canopy.

our corporate plane was repaired (it was fairly new) although it got new engines because that stuff is pretty bad for stuff.  It didn’t give me a warm fuzzy about other sensitive parts…

[GeeBee]

https://www.gatechecked.com/delta-air-lines-hangar-foamed-out-after-fire-suppression-system-fault-2879

 

Delta also had several airplanes damaged in 2015 in ATL from an errant fire suppression system foam the airplanes.

[GeeBee]

On 6/1/2024 at 6:33 PM, Mcstealth said:

The FBO in Kerrville had a big ouch on the tarmac last month.  Pushing a big jet out of the FBO's hangar, the lineman forgot to peg the tow bar on the tug. The pavement has a negative camber immediately outside the hangar doors. Gravity took over, the jet gained some speed and port side engine of the big jet jammed itself in and through the cockpit of a slightly smaller big jet that was parked on the opposite side of the tarmac.

I know accidents happen. I know that the FBO's insurance will take a big hit. I fear the trickle down economics in a sense.

 

I have never understood why FBOs tow aircraft with abandon with tow bars. If you are using a tow bar, better do like the airlines and have someone riding the brakes. The only way a large aircraft should be towed without a brake rider is with a cradle tug agin, like the airlines.

I've had two runaway jets. One I was pushing back from Dulles and the tow bar disconnected and I hear "Captain!......" from the tug driver (as the headset is ripped off his head), I then saw the tug and tower distance themselves in front of me. I gently squeezed the brakes so as not to put it on it's tail and we re-attached. Other time in Dublin Ireland in an A330 the signalman gave me the "chocks in" signal which means release the brakes. As passengers were disembarking I heard a loud banging noise. I did'nt like what I heard so I sat down in my seat just in time for the airplane to jump the nose wheel chock, the ground crew failed to chock the mains (a requirement for "chocks in"). The aircraft started to roll back. Good thing I was there. There was two 767s parked right behind us, the Airbus would have totaled them both. Turns out the ground crewman was a new guy and the station manager wanted to fire him. I asked her not to and said, "He learned a hard but very valuable lesson and I don't want to have to re-teach it to another FNG."

[PT20J]

When I was flying seaplanes in Ketchikan the company made new dock kids wear a special hat for the first week to warn the pilots to be be alert because anything could happen and often did.

[Fly Boomer]

13 hours ago, PT20J said:

company made new dock kids wear a special hat

Did it look like this hat?

 

[Mcstealth]

On 6/1/2024 at 9:40 PM, Texas Mooney said:

It's owned by Joe Kennedy of Kerrville, TX

https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-kennedy-b388b114

JOSEPH L. KENNEDY ENTERPRISES, LTD. :: Texas (US) :: OpenCorporates

Not a chain. Small family business who employs many in Kerrville. I have not talked to Joe yet and sort of don't want to. 

[bcg]

It was a G200 that rolled into a Challenger. From what I understand, both are repairable. Both line guys checked that the pin was in the tug, it looked like it was but wasn't just enough to come loose. I talked to one of the line guys involved a few days after it happened and he was still not sleeping well. He's a good guy that's been there a while and very conscientious, stuff just happens sometimes.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[MattCW]

22 hours ago, PT20J said:

When I was flying seaplanes in Ketchikan the company made new dock kids wear a special hat for the first week to warn the pilots to be be alert because anything could happen and often did.

The railroads do something similar. At least on CSX, an orange high-visibility vest is worn by trainees for a year, after a year, they get the green high-visibility vest.

[Igor_U]

On 6/2/2024 at 3:15 AM, Schllc said:

My understanding is that totals the airplane. 
our local airport made this system mandatory for new hangars years ago, but after two system malfunctions here, one with planes, one without, they are rethinking the requirements. Apparently statistically these are doing more damage than actual plane fires.

Not always...

Few years ago I worked for the company that has a couple of wide body hangars at KMWH. They had few contract workers doing something in a newest hangar. system was already tested few months ago (apparently a requirement) and there was B747 Supertanker in it for some maintenance. Don't remember how but contract crew triggered the system and there was few feet of retardant (I believe CO2 based) on the hangar floor. One of engineering who was present for the test knew where to stop it. I believe he cut the power. No damage to the plane and only a minor cleanup was needed.

I didn't get any pictures of the event, though.