V-band clamp

[Ragsf15e]

On 10/8/2024 at 10:08 AM, shawnd said:

FWIW - Air Power Inc has 670105 on back order now with stock expected beginning of December.. for those folks who want to order one: https://www.airpowerinc.com/670105

They keep sliding the expected date to the right…

[shawnd]

Yep, it’s now Feb 13. Maybe they wanted to wait to make it a Valentine’s Day present 

[Ragsf15e]

14 hours ago, shawnd said:

Yep, it’s now Feb 13. Maybe they wanted to wait to make it a Valentine’s Day present 

I ordered one on Airpower just to see what would happen… tgey charged my card (($830)), but obviously can’t ship it yet.  They are even more expensive on Spruce and also not in stock.  I wonder if Boeing/Avisail has any?  I think you need an account to see.

[Fix]

3 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

I ordered one on Airpower just to see what would happen… tgey charged my card (($830)), but obviously can’t ship it yet.  They are even more expensive on Spruce and also not in stock.  I wonder if Boeing/Avisail has any?  I think you need an account to see.

I also has one on order since late October.
When I first mailed them they said thay had 1pcs in stock, but suddenly when I placed my order it was sold...
Then promised expected delivery in 2 weeks...

Now they just move date forward... and non reply when the might get them in stock.

[Fix]

Airpower now moved delivery to July 2025...

They promised 2 weeks back in October, they don't answer when I can expect delivery.
Always says they will get back, but never does...

 

[shawnd]

On 1/25/2025 at 10:50 AM, Ragsf15e said:

I ordered one on Airpower just to see what would happen… tgey charged my card (($830)), but obviously can’t ship it yet.  They are even more expensive on Spruce and also not in stock.  I wonder if Boeing/Avisail has any?  I think you need an account to see.

I am told Aviall stock is on backorder with expected availability January 2026!

[Ragsf15e]

13 minutes ago, shawnd said:

I am told Aviall stock is on backorder with expected availability January 2026!

Hmmm, so as of July, my awesome new 252 is a brick?!  This isn’t even a Mooney issue, hopefully this insanity gets fixed!

[Fix]

16 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Hmmm, so as of July, my awesome new 252 is a brick?!  This isn’t even a Mooney issue, hopefully this insanity gets fixed!

Mine ain't broken and in Europe we don't yet have the AD on the V-Band Clamp yet.
I want to have one as backup and not be grounded when it's time.

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

What is the marman part number on the original 

 

NH 

There will be a tcm part on the clamp also 

 

 

[shawnd]

20 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Hmmm, so as of July, my awesome new 252 is a brick?!  This isn’t even a Mooney issue, hopefully this insanity gets fixed!

In the same boat. @Marc_B @MarcJohnson what are you guys doing?

[Marc_B]

@shawnd My shop picked up a riveted v-band clamp PN: 670105 for me when this first came out (had to pay for it in advance but I was fine with that). Did 2 inspections of the old clamp and then replaced at last annual. So good for now.

I think the FAA move is away from spot welded clamps to riveted clamps. 

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

I have some clamps in production in a different design that the std T bolt 

Iam using CP2 titanium 

inconel nuts per milspec 

What is the vendor part number on this clamp that everyone is looking for ?

 

not the tcm number 

[Fix]

37 minutes ago, Gee Bee Aeroproducts said:

I have some clamps in production in a different design that the std T bolt 

Iam using CP2 titanium 

inconel nuts per milspec 

What is the vendor part number on this clamp that everyone is looking for ?

 

not the tcm number 

Interested if working for a TSIO 360 SB!

 

[Gee Bee Aeroproducts]

Again find the Aeroquip marman clamp part number 

To order

pay set up fee

There are price breaks

21

51

101

etc

I have no interest in the market where price comes first.

Quality material first 

[Ragsf15e]

I looked at Eaton’s site and can’t figure out exactly which clamp it is.  Im not so sure Gee Bee could just manufacture us new ones anyway.  Any new manufacture would need appropriate stc or pma from the faa and that isn’t going to be quick.  
RAM aircraft has one that’s already approved for tsio-520s to replace the same part number we need and I asked them if they could expand their AML to include more engines that use the same part.  I also asked GAMI as they said they were making one (in 2023) and just for kicks I emailed a couple people at Continental.  I’ll be interested to see if I get anything back.

[Ragsf15e]

16 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

I looked at Eaton’s site and can’t figure out exactly which clamp it is.  Im not so sure Gee Bee could just manufacture us new ones anyway.  Any new manufacture would need appropriate stc or pma from the faa and that isn’t going to be quick.  
RAM aircraft has one that’s already approved for tsio-520s to replace the same part number we need and I asked them if they could expand their AML to include more engines that use the same part.  I also asked GAMI as they said they were making one (in 2023) and just for kicks I emailed a couple people at Continental.  I’ll be interested to see if I get anything back.

Surprisingly, I got quick replies from a TCM customer rep and from RAM aircraft.  Neither is good news, however I'll post what they said here below.  Eaton Manufacturing seems to be the holdup.  I doubt contacting them will help since they are working for TCM and everyone else.  Someone (AOPA?) should be working with the FAA to come up with an extension to the inspection protocol for the AD.

TCM:

Drew,

 

  There is no confirmed date yet when they will be available. Of course, this a high priority for Continental. The best advice we can offer at this point is to get then on order.

 

Thanks

Michael Yousik

 

Sales & Support Specialist

North America

US Southeast, US West, Canada West

 

RAM Aircraft:

We can have these added but my be awhile we are short staffed in engineering and we have having long lead times on these clamps and are not due any until September of this year. 

 Thank you  

Jim Robinson

Senior Manager

Special Projects  

[shawnd]

One reply I got: The only option would be to obtain an AMOC, or Alternative Method Of Compliance. I'm not sure if anyone is working on this.

Anyone know what's required to get one of these? Could we perhaps motivate Mooney to help create one?

[Z W]

Looks like the FAA office that issued the AD has to approve an AMOC. I've looked over the clamp and turbo recently and can't immediately think of how it would be done reasonably. Eliminating the V-band clamp from the design would require major changes to the turbo and tailpipe not consistent with certified airplanes. 

Maybe we need to be asking the FAA to extend the deadline for compliance until the manufacturers of the new riveted clamps can catch up. Or to put pressure on the manufacturers to make them.

V-band clamps are a standard part in the automotive world and high quality ones are available for less than $50. This should be a solvable problem and an opportunity for someone with a manufacturing facility to make a good amount of money.

 

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/continued_operation/ad/alt_moc#:~:text=An AMOC provides an acceptable,an acceptable level of safety.

[Pinecone]

GAMI was supposedly working on an AMOC clamp that would eliminate the issues with both the spot welded and riveted.

Summit Racing sells them for something like $30 - $50 or so.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/exhaust-clamps/clamp-style/v-band/product-line/summit-racing-premium-v-band-exhaust-clamps?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Default&cm_mmc=ppc-google-_-search-_-general-terms-_-keyword&gclid=Cj0KCQiAkoe9BhDYARIsAH85cDObJIjm_io80m2sY9Aj758F2qlzAywr3a8TzAq1OBXYgvQvwdyebAwaAl-MEALw_wcB

I can't imagine there are that many people making these things.

 

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, Z W said:

Looks like the FAA office that issued the AD has to approve an AMOC. I've looked over the clamp and turbo recently and can't immediately think of how it would be done reasonably. Eliminating the V-band clamp from the design would require major changes to the turbo and tailpipe not consistent with certified airplanes. 

An AMOC might be something as simple as finding a good quality automotive or racing V-band that fits and installing it with a required short inspection cycle or something like that.   A reasonable inspection cycle might substitute for a PMA'd part at least until they're availabe or something like that.    I'm sure the FAA is fully aware of the parts availability issue on this particular AD, so it might be worth a discussion to find a reasonable AMOC path.   It shouldn't require redesigning anything.

 

[ProtoFly]

38 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

GAMI was supposedly working on an AMOC clamp that would eliminate the issues with both the spot welded and riveted.

Summit Racing sells them for something like $30 - $50 or so.

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/exhaust-clamps/clamp-style/v-band/product-line/summit-racing-premium-v-band-exhaust-clamps?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Default&cm_mmc=ppc-google-_-search-_-general-terms-_-keyword&gclid=Cj0KCQiAkoe9BhDYARIsAH85cDObJIjm_io80m2sY9Aj758F2qlzAywr3a8TzAq1OBXYgvQvwdyebAwaAl-MEALw_wcB

I can't imagine there are that many people making these things.

 

Just got two new clamps for my Rajay Turbo Normalized install.  They don't look any different than any other V-Band clamp from Summit.  Well, except for a serial number etched in, with a part number.  I'd HAPPILY replace every couple of years at $30-$50 each from Summit, vs $400+.  Most likely the same part, same manufacturer, but someone gets paid to stamp some additional numbers, boosting the price X 10.  :-/

I will say, though, that the clamps I took off were likely the originals, stamped with Hughes Aviation part numbers.  One was in fairly good condition (the one the AD would cover), and the other was barely holding on.  This being the first annual since I purchased, I expected to find many items that needed attention, and I haven't been disappointed!

[Z W]

1 hour ago, EricJ said:

An AMOC might be something as simple as finding a good quality automotive or racing V-band that fits and installing it with a required short inspection cycle or something like that.   A reasonable inspection cycle might substitute for a PMA'd part at least until they're availabe or something like that.    I'm sure the FAA is fully aware of the parts availability issue on this particular AD, so it might be worth a discussion to find a reasonable AMOC path.   It shouldn't require redesigning anything.

 

I didn't know you could do that without going through the full PMA process. If so I'd think it might be a good solution.

[Ragsf15e]

I agree that we’re at a point where we should be looking at how to do some kind of amoc request or ask for an extension to the inspections.  You’d think this might be in AOPA’s wheelhouse, but I emailed them and haven’t heard anything.  Im not sure who’s the right industry point of contact to pursue this, but I doubt it’s individual owners.  Well, unless nobody else is doing it.

An amoc to install an appropriate sized, high quality auto clamp with recurring inspection until parts are available would be ideal.  So who should we discuss this with?  I suspect the faa would want engineering data, parts reasearch, checklists, etc…

[PeteMc]

4 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

You’d think this might be in AOPA’s wheelhouse, but I emailed them and haven’t heard anything.

Try calling.  Usually once you get to a person, they'll either transfer you to the right person or actually follow up to get the info to the right person. 

 

[EricJ]

6 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

I agree that we’re at a point where we should be looking at how to do some kind of amoc request or ask for an extension to the inspections.  You’d think this might be in AOPA’s wheelhouse, but I emailed them and haven’t heard anything.  Im not sure who’s the right industry point of contact to pursue this, but I doubt it’s individual owners.  Well, unless nobody else is doing it.

An amoc to install an appropriate sized, high quality auto clamp with recurring inspection until parts are available would be ideal.  So who should we discuss this with?  I suspect the faa would want engineering databut that, parts reasearch, checklists, etc…

Don't assume they want more than they do.   It's much better to assume that they want a small, basic amount of supporting data, and then let them ask for more if they need it.   Sometimes they don't, especially if they've heard similar from somebody else trying to solve the same problem. 

If there's an identifiable crossover part number to an automotive/truck/tractor/race/whatever part, that may be very easy and potentially even installable as a logbook entry if it is the same part.    If a part number isn't the same, but the part is very close to the same, you'll need more data.   At a minimum, showing the physical dimensions are the same will lay a foundation, and then if the intended application uses more boost than an airplane (which isn't a very high bar), that is also useful data.   It's also reasonable to call and just present some or all of that or additional measures as a plan and ask if that'll be useful in establishing an AMOC.   It may help if somebody installs it on an airplane and does some test ground runs to demonstrate functionality and no leaks, etc., but that's the sort of thing I'd offer to do if it was helpful.