Want a Mooney M20 but no hangars available.

[thevaliant]

I've been in the market for an M20 for a while and I've seen a lot of nice planes slip away. So far I have been determined to not purchase one until I have secured a hangar, but I have no idea how long that will be. Am I doing the right thing to wait for a hangar? I was also wondering how well the tactic of.... "I'll buy your plane, but I also need your hangar" would work? Im in Springfield, MO. So its pretty cold/wet winters and some bad storms in the spring. At this point it seems more possible (sort of kidding) to buy land, build my own hangar and strip than it does to secure a hangar. I am about to finish PPL and Im getting antsy to get a plane for fun family trips.

All that to say, if anyone has connections in the KSGF area for a hangar and an M20, I could use them. 

[Fly Boomer]

10 minutes ago, thevaliant said:

I've been in the market for an M20 for a while and I've seen a lot of nice planes slip away. So far I have been determined to not purchase one until I have secured a hangar, but I have no idea how long that will be. Am I doing the right thing to wait for a hangar? I was also wondering how well the tactic of.... "I'll buy your plane, but I also need your hangar" would work? Im in Springfield, MO. So its pretty cold/wet winters and some bad storms in the spring. At this point it seems more possible (sort of kidding) to buy land, build my own hangar and strip than it does to secure a hangar. I am about to finish PPL and Im getting antsy to get a plane for fun family trips.

All that to say, if anyone has connections in the KSGF area for a hangar and an M20, I could use them. 

Sitting outside is not good for airplanes.  Especially aluminum airplanes.  I got the hangar first, and I recommend it.  I drew a 50-mile radius around my home, and put my name on every list inside that circle.  But no turf strips.  It took awhile, but some vacancies started to pop.  There are airports closer to where I live, but in some cases the hangars are not as nice.  In other cases, there are plans to tear down the existing hangars, and I would be without for an extended time.  I'm about 45 minutes away from my home, but the price is competitive, and it's an excellent hangar.

EDIT:  I have seen the "I'll buy the airplane if the hanger comes with" gambit work.  Maybe not ideal because you may get the hangar on a sub-lease, but it could work depending on how long the hangar lists are near you.

[MikeOH]

My $0.02:

1) Finish PPL before buying anything (others will chime in with the opposite advice )

2) While ideal, pretty unlikely you can get the plane and hangar. For one, the right plane needs to be located at the right hangar!  If there is a waiting list the only way this would work is for the current tenant to sublet to you; probably violates his lease.

3) How many airports are within, say 45 minutes of your home?  Much farther and you won't fly too much after the novelty wears off.

4) Once you've ID'ed the airports, call each and find out the waiting time?  You may consider tie downs for awhile if the wait isn't measured in years.

 

[Pinecone]

Previous owner of my plane did not have a hangar.  He bought the complete set of covers from Bruce's Covers.  He used them once or twice and a hangar became available.

I don't know if it happens on the airplane world, but my experience was when I wanted a slip for our new sailboat, they had a long waiting list.  We took a mooring.  Showed up for the weekly races and the next season, had a slip. 

[Schllc]

Subleases at most airports are pretty common, and if you haunt the pilot lounge, and the leasing office, if your airport had one, you can usually find a place to put your plane. 
A few months outside, while not ideal, isn’t going to hurt the plane.  
Put your name on a waiting list immediately , start  looking for the right plane, and use this time to sort it out and get whatever work you want done.  
If I had waited for my name to come up on the waiting list at my home airport I would have been waiting three years, but I found sublets for those years and my planes have been in hangars almost all the time I owned them. 
Life is short, get the plane and the rest will work out. 

[00-Negative]

I was in this same situation a few months ago. The close-minded lady at my local municipal airport would not give me any indication as to hangar availability or wait times and would not put my name on a list because I did not have a plane and I wasn't a pilot yet. I happened to find and purchase my plane only a 2 hour drive away. We agreed that we would leave the plane in his hangar for up to 6 months until I could procure a hangar and I would pay his lease fee. It took less than 1 month for me to get a T-hangar in a town about 16 miles from my house. I had to build my own metal doors and do some metal work on the roof left over from Hurricane Laura (around $2100 on me). But me and my CFI picked up my Mooney and flew it home. Then I had another month where I couldn't fly it, so I spent the time putting a ceramic coat on it and doing all kinds of illegal stuff on it that I read about on this forum like fold down back seats, battery minder convenience plugs, led lights, etc...

Now, I rarely go a week without flying it. And I'll never do business with KDRI. They simply don't know how to treat people. My money will go to 5R8 for the foreseeable future. 

Like others have said, get your name on every list around and go buy your plane. Fly your plane to your 1st choice airport as much as you can. Fill up with fuel at that airport every chance you get. They run fuel sales reports and know who is buying fuel. Surprisingly, my airport manager actually texted me a few weeks back and thanked me for leasing from them. He said I never complain or ask about anything and that I've purchased more fuel than any other tenant. I guess I'm still  bewildered that I'm a pilot and that I own an airplane. And I am also not very efficient with fuel consumption. 

I think prices have come back down to earth and reasonable deals are out there. 

 

[hammdo]

More airports are doing that now - requiring a plane owned before putting you on the list. Makes it hard for non owners…

-Don

[wombat]

I recommend getting the plane whenever you want. 

 

They are airplanes, not marshmallow peeps.  They won't melt in the rain or the heat.     Sure, it's less good to leave them out, but you still have a plane you can fly, even if it sits outside.   

[Will.iam]

2 hours ago, thevaliant said:

I've been in the market for an M20 for a while and I've seen a lot of nice planes slip away. So far I have been determined to not purchase one until I have secured a hangar, but I have no idea how long that will be. Am I doing the right thing to wait for a hangar? I was also wondering how well the tactic of.... "I'll buy your plane, but I also need your hangar" would work? Im in Springfield, MO. So its pretty cold/wet winters and some bad storms in the spring. At this point it seems more possible (sort of kidding) to buy land, build my own hangar and strip than it does to secure a hangar. I am about to finish PPL and Im getting antsy to get a plane for fun family trips.

All that to say, if anyone has connections in the KSGF area for a hangar and an M20, I could use them. 

Also get quotes for a retractable high performance airplane on a new ppl just so you know what kind of budget you are going to need. Insurance is expensive on new pilots with low hours. 

[bcg]

I kept mine on a tie down with a Bruce's cover for about 15 months before I got a hangar. Sure I'd rather have had it inside but, I did a whole lot of flying that I wouldn't have if I didn't have the plane. It's outside when you're flying it and probably going to be outside when you're away from home, several months to a year on a tie down won't destroy a plane that's getting used and maintained regularly. Mine wasn't any worse for the year, it was already 60 years old and had 6600 TTAF when I bought it and tied it down.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[DCarlton]

My Mooney has been on a tie down for the 20 years I've owned it and it was on a tie down long before I bought it.   In SOCAL it's not an issue; can't speak to MO.  Occasional hail would scare me.  A good cockpit cover can provide a lot of protection for the windows, avionics and upholstery and it should keep the rain from seeping in.  I think I'm on my third cover in 20 years.  

Now if I had a $300K Ovation or $500K Acclaim, I'd want a hangar too.  

[ArtVandelay]

They can’t fit you in a community hangar? I know T is preferred but I would not want to be outside; hail, animals, rain, etc

[Z W]

Hello from Lake of the Ozarks.  I'm a little familiar with Springfield - flew lots of approaches there for training.

Speaking from experience, the way rural Missouri airports work, there are never hangars "available."  If you buy a plane and tie it down, start paying the FBO, buy all your fuel there, have the local shop start doing all your maintenance, and get to know the people, all while letting them know you want a hangar really bad, you'll find one shortly.  You may have to sublease or be in a community hangar for a while until a T-hangar or private box hangar comes up.

The "wait lists" are full of people without planes and people who want to fill them up with boats and RVs and other junk.  They're also usually pretty political.  The airport managers can skip over people at will.  Most places it's not policed and nobody ever even really knows. Just be friendly and pay your bills and you'll get put to the top of the list pretty quick.  If you wait to buy the plane until you have the hangar lease, you'll be waiting forever.

Also don't forget to check other options.  Springfield Downtown, Bolivar, Monett, or Lebanon might work short-term and are all pretty nice little airports with some hangars.

Good luck with the PPL and plane search.

[thevaliant]

Thanks for all the responses. The responses definitely help me feel better about getting a plane before getting a hangar. A cover sounds like a good idea if its going to be on the ramp for any amount of time. Also thanks for the warnings about costs of maintenance, insurance, etc.  

5 hours ago, Z W said:

Hello from Lake of the Ozarks.  I'm a little familiar with Springfield - flew lots of approaches there for training.

Speaking from experience, the way rural Missouri airports work, there are never hangars "available."  If you buy a plane and tie it down, start paying the FBO, buy all your fuel there, have the local shop start doing all your maintenance, and get to know the people, all while letting them know you want a hangar really bad, you'll find one shortly.  You may have to sublease or be in a community hangar for a while until a T-hangar or private box hangar comes up.

The "wait lists" are full of people without planes and people who want to fill them up with boats and RVs and other junk.  They're also usually pretty political.  The airport managers can skip over people at will.  Most places it's not policed and nobody ever even really knows. Just be friendly and pay your bills and you'll get put to the top of the list pretty quick.  If you wait to buy the plane until you have the hangar lease, you'll be waiting forever.

Also don't forget to check other options.  Springfield Downtown, Bolivar, Monett, or Lebanon might work short-term and are all pretty nice little airports with some hangars.

Good luck with the PPL and plane search.

I actually do my training out of Bolivar and rent their 172's. They are super great people but have the longest hangar list I have come across. Im currently on the list in Bolivar, Downtown (3DW) and Aurora. Ive heard Buffalo might have some T-hangars, so I might check there. Heck I'm even willing to go all the way to Branson West. There is actually an M20 there I considered looking at. 3DW would be my first choice because its 5 minutes from my house. I didn't think about Monett but it is a nice airport. Ive never been to Lebanon, but it sounds like I'm not trying hard enough 

I suppose Ill keep looking for a plane and keep rubbing elbows with people at different FBOs. 

Edited January 23 by thevaliant

[Z W]

3 hours ago, thevaliant said:

Ive heard Buffalo might have some T-hangars, so I might check there. Heck I'm even willing to go all the way to Branson West. There is actually an M20 there I considered looking at. 3DW would be my first choice because its 5 minutes from my house. I didn't think about Monett but it is a nice airport. Ive never been to Lebanon, but it sounds like I'm not trying hard enough 

Buffalo (H17) is a 3200 foot runway with no weather reporting or instrument approaches and trees on each end.  3200 will feel a little short in some M20 models, especially while you're learning the plane with a fresh PPL.  I've never been in there, did not actually know it had an airport, but in addition to the runway length, the AFM supplement notes "Insuf rwy safety area byd each rwy end, fences, brush, trees." 

The short body Mooneys (C and E models) are pretty good short field performers, but only with proper technique.  The mid and long bodies are not as good, even with proper technique and speeds.  They will do book numbers, and 3200 feet is "enough", but if you ever come in fast or high, it would be easy to run out of runway.  Especially if you throw in a stiff crosswind of unknown speed, other than guessing looking at the wind sock.  I would consider that as a last choice until you know what you're doing in the plane.  The hardest part about transitioning from a 172 will be, oddly enough, learning to slow down and fly the proper speeds on approach so you don't float or porpoise during landing.

Lebanon (KLBO) may be a little farther but is an easy drive down I-44 and a nice airport.

[toto]

19 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

They can’t fit you in a community hangar? I know T is preferred but I would not want to be outside; hail, animals, rain, etc

+1 to this

Group hangars can be expensive, but it's a heck of a lot better than being outside, and you can get line service when you need it.  FBOs with group hangars also tend to be on the field for a long time, and they tend to own a bunch of T-Hangars for overflow.  It's not at all unusual to get your own private T-Hangar by paying an FBO for a group hangar spot - especially if you fly a lot, because they hate moving all the planes to get you out.

I have exactly this situation today with the Piper.

[Tx_Aggie]

On 1/22/2024 at 4:41 PM, Schllc said:

Subleases at most airports are pretty common, and if you haunt the pilot lounge, and the leasing office, if your airport had one, you can usually find a place to put your plane. 
A few months outside, while not ideal, isn’t going to hurt the plane.  
Put your name on a waiting list immediately , start  looking for the right plane, and use this time to sort it out and get whatever work you want done.  
If I had waited for my name to come up on the waiting list at my home airport I would have been waiting three years, but I found sublets for those years and my planes have been in hangars almost all the time I owned them. 
Life is short, get the plane and the rest will work out. 

Agreed 1000%, get the right plane first. The hanger will fall into place afterwards. You might check too, the local airports in my neck of the woods won’t lease/rent out unless you have a plane to stick in there. “I’m planning on buying one” isn’t good enough and they’ve booted folks who just use hanger space as glorified junk storage. 

[carusoam]

Hey all!  
 

This is one of my favorite discussions…

Stay focussed…

1) Focus on determining which M20 is right for me… A, or V, or something in between….

2) Focus on finishing the PPL…  then focus on the next steps… IR, seaplane, glider rating, tail wheel endorsement….

3) Focus on finding a place to keep her…  even if it is a tie down in NJ…

4) My M20C lived outdoors her entire life… she looked worn before I got her.  A good cover, and a good cleaning and wax are helpful…

5) My M20R lived outdoors for a year… a near perfect paint job, doesn’t stay that way living outdoors….

6) If you have aviation experience… family members count.  You can probably determine the best plane for you…

7) If you have no aviation experience, and an M20V sounds about right…. There is a lot of work to get done… 

8) Some people fly a trainer for the first hundred or so hours…

9) Others buy a Mooney and train in it…  too much focus required.

10) Often finding the right Mooney can take a year…. So stay focussed!

11) Renting a plane has its benefits… until you own one.

12) Tying down outside has its benefits… until you have a hangar.

13) Keeping your plane in hangar is pretty cool… until you own your own hangar.

14) Owning your own hangar has its benefits… until you have your own hangar home…. 

 

Soooo…. With all that out in the open…

Natural Mooney pilots are good at multi-tasking and staying focussed on everything all the time…

Keep moving all the balls forwards…  keep asking questions… find a mentor.

 

When buying a plane…

know what a PPI is… decide how to use one, who is going to do it, how much you want to spend…

there are plenty of discussions around here for all of that…

 

Enjoy the hunt!

Go Mooney!

 

PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy….  

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

@thevaliant, please reread the enumerated list above. @carusoam is a veritable font of information. It's good to see you again, Anthony, helping the new guys along!

[thevaliant]

On 1/23/2024 at 10:47 PM, carusoam said:

Hey all!  
 

This is one of my favorite discussions…

Stay focussed…

1) Focus on determining which M20 is right for me… A, or V, or something in between….

2) Focus on finishing the PPL…  then focus on the next steps… IR, seaplane, glider rating, tail wheel endorsement….

3) Focus on finding a place to keep her…  even if it is a tie down in NJ…

4) My M20C lived outdoors her entire life… she looked worn before I got her.  A good cover, and a good cleaning and wax are helpful…

5) My M20R lived outdoors for a year… a near perfect paint job, doesn’t stay that way living outdoors….

6) If you have aviation experience… family members count.  You can probably determine the best plane for you…

7) If you have no aviation experience, and an M20V sounds about right…. There is a lot of work to get done… 

8) Some people fly a trainer for the first hundred or so hours…

9) Others buy a Mooney and train in it…  too much focus required.

10) Often finding the right Mooney can take a year…. So stay focussed!

11) Renting a plane has its benefits… until you own one.

12) Tying down outside has its benefits… until you have a hangar.

13) Keeping your plane in hangar is pretty cool… until you own your own hangar.

14) Owning your own hangar has its benefits… until you have your own hangar home…. 

 

Soooo…. With all that out in the open…

Natural Mooney pilots are good at multi-tasking and staying focussed on everything all the time…

Keep moving all the balls forwards…  keep asking questions… find a mentor.

 

When buying a plane…

know what a PPI is… decide how to use one, who is going to do it, how much you want to spend…

there are plenty of discussions around here for all of that…

 

Enjoy the hunt!

Go Mooney!

 

PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy….  

Best regards,

-a-

I appreciate the input and help. I’m eyeballing M20Cs mostly. Looking to travel reasonable distances at a reasonable pace. 
 

A hangar home sounds great. Sign me up! I wish but it’s a little early for that for me.

I will no doubt keep my eyes open and the balls rolling forward. 
 

 

[Flash]

I have owned my plane for 24 years. I have never had it hangared. It has lived in Mississippi, Georgia, suburban DC, Connecticut, and California, with a cover on it when it's not flying. In 24 years, there are perhaps 15 days where a hangar would have saved me considerable time preheating the engine or defrosting the plane. It also maybe would have prevented birds from making a next in the rear fuselage, which they did once, and deer from chewing off a couple of static wicks. The difference between hangar rental fees and tiedown rental fees is significant ($350/month) at my airport. I'd rather fill my gas tanks to the brim once a month with the money I'm saving. One of the magazines ran an analysis many years ago about the value of a hangar vs. the value of the difference in annual rental fees. Tiedowns won.

Back in the days when I owned a car (15 years ago), I parked it outside, too, not in a garage. The car, like the plane, did not rust into oblivion.

Don't get me wrong. If you've got a hangar, good for you. Some of my best friends have hangars. But don't be scared to park your plane outside. 

[Outofmoney]

call FBO at SGF. I know for a fact they had some space available recently. good luck. 

[Pinecone]

One hail storm cancels the savings of the tiedown.