Lighted Overhead Light Switches

[Marc_B]

My light switches are overhead on the headliner for the strobe/landing/taxi/recog/etc.  But I've noticed that they do not light up with the panel or glare shield lights...is this supposed to light and a bulb is just burned out?  If this isn't typically lit, have any of you had this modified to back light the switches for night flying?  It seems you either have to memorize the position or have a headlamp as the overhead lights point down and don't really light up the switches either.

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Marc_B
changed picture to my switches

[LANCECASPER]

The plastic piece that all of the switches sit in has translucent letters and does not have just a bulb.

@GeeBee just  replaced that plastic piece recently if I remember correctly and should chime in.

[GeeBee]

Here you go!

 

 

[Marc_B]

@GeeBee that’s great info! Thanks!!

BTW, do you think the space in between the two banks of switches has enough room for a max pulse?  Seems like if it is, the wiring would be easy to connect to recog lights…

[GeeBee]

No, because the power wire to the panel goes there. Do not think it will fit.

 

[Marc_B]

So I found two places who can repair these:

https://aircapitoldial.com/

https://www.nimbusaviation.com/

Both places need the current panel to repair rather than purchasing a new one.  Mooney has no stock or pathway to replace at current.

 

[Marc_B]

Figured I'd circle back around on this...finally had a chance to get the Mooney into the shop with some down time when I wasn't flying.

1) The DC-AC inverter (LP105A in the parts manual) manufactured by Endicott Research Group (ERG LPS28-3-3P) has been discontinued.  LASAR said they could order from Mooney; not sure how many of these Mooney has but ERG said they only had 3 units left and were not planning on making any more without a "sizable order that would make financial sense."  I ordered one even though my inverter tested fine.  The inverter is epoxied into the headliner at the lower left corner right next to the overhead panel...VERY firmly fixed in place with epoxy.

2) EL panel sent off to Air Capitol Dial for overhaul as the EL panel was clearly dead and wouldn't illuminate on a test bench.  Should be back next week.

3) used this opportunity to have my shop install a MaxPulse wired to the recogs so they could be pulsed.  Followed @GeeBee's suggestion for location of the MaxPulse knob overhead.  Great location, out of the way and looks like it was made for that spot.  For Mooneys with an overhead switch bank this seems to be the most simple and least expensive way to wig wag the recogs. 

Have to get the EL panel back and make sure all is squared away, fix the MaxPulse placard in place (adhesive back?) and button things up.  I had the shop wire the MaxPulse after the rocker switch so that my rocker switch still controls the recogs on and off but the MaxPulse controls the mode (flashing, alternating, or continuous).  I liked this option better than bypassing the recog rocker and only using the MaxPulse; seems more intuitive.

[Marc_B]

Looking at the breakers and switches...the landing and taxi lights are split switches and I have separate 25A breakers on the panel for both of them.  But the rest of the light switches are combination circuit breaker/switches (strobe, beacon, nav, recog).  Did they not make combo split switch/breakers, I guess?

What is the amp rating for the circuit breaker switches?

...and doesn't 25A seem high...  Seems like even a 250W tractor light would pull a little less than 10A; which I guess makes sense if 2 landing lights pulling 18A with 25A breaker.  Do shops ever change the circuit breaker when installing LEDs?  heck even the current hog WAT G3's only pull 1.9A at 28VDC x 2 = ~4A load with 25A breaker.

In the era of everyone going to LEDs, does it matter that the circuit breakers for all of these are now all significantly oversized?  Is there an aviation standard convention breakers/fuses? i.e. typical household breaker at least 125% of rated load.

Just looking at the details and my brain started pulling 30A headed towards a short...

[Pinecone]

11 minutes ago, Marc_B said:

...and doesn't 25A seem high...  Seems like even a 250W tractor light would pull a little less than 10A; which I guess makes sense if 2 landing lights pulling 18A with 25A breaker. 

Circuit breakers are to protect the wiring.  The trip rating of the breaker is based on the wire size.  But going to a lower trip rating is OK (safer).

A 250W device will draw 17.85 amps on a 14-volt system.  20.83 is the alternator fails and the battery runs down.

[Marc_B]

Makes sense.  If wiring stays the same then breaker will pop before wiring melts.  I was using 28V for my system, so half the current draw of the 14V (~8.9A "a little less than 10").  Figured it must not be a safety issue as Whelen's install manuals never mention it, although they report input currents from every light.  Of course WAT wouldn't know your application, how many lights in circuit and what voltage, etc. so it made sense they wouldn't specify.

...was thinking about this specifically regarding wig wag units like the MaxPulse that potentially combine lights from other circuits onto a single circuit and might need an adjustment with the circuit breaker.  Of course with LEDs the current draws are low enough that it didn't matter, and this lead me down the oversized breaker question.  My situation kept the rocker switch/circuit breaker combo in play and didn't need any change.

Channeling @carusoam... "I'm a general aviation pilot not a..."  I'm definitely not an electrician!  I have the questions, not always the answers

[Pinecone]

I am going with a pulser/flasher from Whelen.

It controls up to 4 circuits in banks of two. So Circuits 1 and 2 are on and off together, but opposite 3 and 4.  And it works like a PulseLight in that turning the appropriate switch to ON makes the light be on continuously.  And it is about half the price of a PulseLight.

Mine will alternate the landing light with the recog lights.

[Marc_B]

@Pinecone I contemplated something more involved and agree that pulsing the wing taxi lights with the recogs would be more visible.  But was really just getting the EL overhead light panel fixed and "while we were there..." decided to add the MaxPulse as it was inexpensive and pretty convenient with the recog light there in the switch bank.

I preferred to be able to use the stock switches and I didn't want to have to add some other light switch to my panel way away from the others in the overhead (no more room in the overhead for another rocker switch).  In my scenario, the MaxPulse was the cleanest, simplest and least expensive way to get some wigwag from the recogs.

@donkaye has a link to a video using the PulseLite set up with the taxi and recogs.  Certainly with the wing taxi lights and coupled that way you'd have to be hard to miss!  Of course the downside with the PulseLite is that it's a 1 lb brick of a module you have to mount somewhere and it's at least 4 times the cost of the MaxPulse.  Certainly a cheaper way to do the same type of alternating flash would be a bonus.

One thought for the folks who have cowl mounted taxi light...a fellow Mooney friend of mine is thinking about using the MaxPulse to alternate both recogs with the center taxi light.  Since he only has 1 cowl taxi light, it just made sense to put both recogs on one circuit and the taxi on the other MaxPulse circuit.  The benefit of the MaxPulse is the cost, the simplicity and the size!  Downside is it's a basic two circuit selection...fortunately it can take up to 10A per circuit so plenty for both recogs in same circuit.

 

[Pinecone]

15 hours ago, Marc_B said:

@Pinecone I contemplated something more involved and agree that pulsing the wing taxi lights with the recogs would be more visible.  But was really just getting the EL overhead light panel fixed and "while we were there..." decided to add the MaxPulse as it was inexpensive and pretty convenient with the recog light there in the switch bank.

@donkaye has a link to a video using the PulseLite set up with the taxi and recogs.  Certainly with the wing taxi lights and coupled that way you'd have to be hard to miss!  Of course the downside with the PulseLite is that it's a 1 lb brick of a module you have to mount somewhere and it's at least 4 times the cost of the MaxPulse.  Certainly a cheaper way to do the same type of alternating flash would be a bonus.

One thought for the folks who have cowl mounted taxi light...a fellow Mooney friend of mine is thinking about using the MaxPulse to alternate both recogs with the center taxi light.  Since he only has 1 cowl taxi light, it just made sense to put both recogs on one circuit and the taxi on the other MaxPulse circuit.  The benefit of the MaxPulse is the cost and the size!  Downside is it's a basic two circuit selection...fortunately it can take up to 10A per circuit so plenty for both recogs in same circuit.

Understand.

That is why I like the Whelen.  A bit more than the MaxPulse but about half the cost of a Pulselight.  And just needs one switch added to turn the pulse on and off.

4 circuits, but paired so that 1&2 are one when 3&4 are off and vice versa.   And, like the PulseLight, you only have to turn on the Landing light to get it on steady.  You don't have to turn off the Pulser.

[Marc_B]

 

Figured I’d post a pic. When I try to shoot one at night it either tries to use flash or does a long exposure. So this was the best I could get with my phone for now. But Air Capitol Dial did a great job and nice to have lighted indications for once! And it even dims with panel light dimmer knob. 

[ArtVandelay]

Figured I’d post a pic. When I try to shoot one at night it either tries to use flash or does a long exposure. So this was the best I could get with my phone for now.

Try taking the picture at dawn or dusk, there’ll be ambient light to take the picture without flash.

[Marc_B]

3 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Try taking the picture at dawn or dusk,

@ArtVandelay That’s a MUCH better background than my ugly hangar door!!