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Posted

Well done!

After you're done shaking, remove the top cowl and check your magneto as a first step.  I presume you still have the siamese mag, and an installation failure can disable the engine without warning.

Posted

Well done - there is nothing out there but trees and the CT River.  That's the second emergency landing that track has hosted.

What was the issue that caused the landing?

Glad you are safe and that you found that track.

Posted
On 8/1/2023 at 11:37 AM, Kirch56H said:

 

Now to work through the process to determine what happened and what’s next. 
 

Any update on what the cause of your problems was?

Posted
On 8/1/2023 at 11:37 AM, Kirch56H said:

Just to update all my fellow MooneySpace Family, I was the PIC of this flight. It happened quick as most emergencies do. We (my family and I) were in solid IMC at 5k when I lost almost all power very suddenly and without warning. I worked through the emergency procedures checklist but had no success. I advised ATC of my issues and started a descent to VMC about 1000’ ft below. After the emergency procedures didn’t recover the power loss, I advised I was declaring and proceeded to get vectors for the nearest field. I was about 9 miles from the nearest and I worried if I lost the engine we may not glide all the way to the field. When we broke out, I could see what I thought was an airstrip about a mile or two off the nose. ATC advised I was near a private airfield and I thought that’s what I was looking at.  I informed ATC of my intentions to circle this field and make a landing. We landed safely and not a scratch on my family or the plane, thank god! Only after I landed did I find out we landed on the Consumer Reports testing facility track. It’s about 4400’ long and makes a great emergency LZ! 
 

Now to work through the process to determine what happened and what’s next. 
 

This is a sobering reminder of why to practice practice practice, constantly refresh yourself with the POH and your checklists and stay sharp! I credit my save to my flight training and the many days I spent with my CFI working through this stuff! I will continue to be a student of the game and always press myself to study, practice and stay sharp! …..your life and others depend on it! 

Well done!  I am glad you and your family are all safe.  It must have been scary especially in IMC.  

Posted

I think I may wait until the FAA contacted me before I did anything especially if your not an A&P.

Plus leaving will be an issue, not sure what required paperwork is but there will be something, way back 40 years ago we had a guy in flight school that dead sticked his Piper into the Super bowl parking lot from fuel exhaustion. That didn’t upset the FAA but him putting fuel in it and taking off did.

At least that was the story I heard, he disappeared from Flight School.

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Posted

Just to update everyone, Upon inspection with the FAA Inspector and A&P/IA, they found that the internal baffles had broken off inside the muffler. The FAA Inspector and IA noticed heat marks and deformation on the inlet pipes going into the muffler housing indicating that the exhaust gases couldn't flow smoothly out of the exhaust and became trapped. They determined that the piece of the exhaust baffles had become lodged and obstructed almost all of the exhaust exit hole in the muffler, thus causing the immediate reduction in power and inability for the engine to run properly or make any power to maintain flight. They did say that they had seen this once before on a different aircraft and normally when a muffler fails the pieces simply blow out the tailpipe. I guess I got very unlucky that mine got stuck. I was very lucky however, that i had such a great spot to make an emergency landing!!

We got a new muffler overnighted and made the necessary repairs yesterday. The FAA approved all of the work and all the ground runs showed that the problem was corrected. I was able to take off yesterday afternoon with the plane and fly it back to my local field. I played it safe and made the trip at a high altitude so I had options should any issues arise on the way back. 

I will say that the FAA Inspector was amazing and did a great job. He never approached with the attitude that he was out to get me and if anything, he was extremely understanding and compassionate to the issues. He reiterated several times that I did the right thing and made safe decisions to result in this positive outcome. He said this is why we have emergency procedures and pilots should never hesitate to use them! Then he said, Never let your pride get in the way of your safety!

Thanks all for the kind words above and thanks for reading. Stay safe and fly Smart- Matt

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Posted
1 hour ago, Kirch56H said:

Just to update everyone, Upon inspection with the FAA Inspector and A&P/IA, they found that the internal baffles had broken off inside the muffler. The FAA Inspector and IA noticed heat marks and deformation on the inlet pipes going into the muffler housing indicating that the exhaust gases couldn't flow smoothly out of the exhaust and became trapped. They determined that the piece of the exhaust baffles had become lodged and obstructed almost all of the exhaust exit hole in the muffler, thus causing the immediate reduction in power and inability for the engine to run properly or make any power to maintain flight. They did say that they had seen this once before on a different aircraft and normally when a muffler fails the pieces simply blow out the tailpipe. I guess I got very unlucky that mine got stuck. I was very lucky however, that i had such a great spot to make an emergency landing!!

We got a new muffler overnighted and made the necessary repairs yesterday. The FAA approved all of the work and all the ground runs showed that the problem was corrected. I was able to take off yesterday afternoon with the plane and fly it back to my local field. I played it safe and made the trip at a high altitude so I had options should any issues arise on the way back. 

I will say that the FAA Inspector was amazing and did a great job. He never approached with the attitude that he was out to get me and if anything, he was extremely understanding and compassionate to the issues. He reiterated several times that I did the right thing and made safe decisions to result in this positive outcome. He said this is why we have emergency procedures and pilots should never hesitate to use them! Then he said, Never let your pride get in the way of your safety!

Thanks all for the kind words above and thanks for reading. Stay safe and fly Smart- Matt

Great airmanship and outcome! Glad everything turned out good. 

How many hours on the muffler?

Posted

I suspect by baffle they are talking about the flame tubes?  They seem to cause more issues than they are worth.  They are supposed to minimize erosion and local heating of the outside skin of the muffler, but occasionally fail in the way you experienced.  The funny thing is that any given day, the fleet of aircraft are flying around D with no flame tubes, because they have departed.  I have personally not seen a negative affect of no flame tubes….  I think there is even one overhauled who has approval to leave them out.  Not sure where I’m going with this except to vent about flame tubes that seem to be far more problematic then the problem they were supposed to solve.  I think they even scrub some power.  Has anybody seen a failure of the exhaust because the flame tubes were missing?

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Posted

I had an engine issue resulting in a dead stick landing at an airport runway thankfully - and since I declared an emergency - there was an FAA phone call afterwards, about a week later.  The person was very respectful and even complimentary to good pilotage and decision making, and even more than that, he seemed grateful and happy to be talking to a living pilot.  I came away happy that there are actual humans working at the FAA.

ANYWAY - well done sir!!!

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Posted
6 minutes ago, takair said:

I suspect by baffle they are talking about the flame tubes?  They seem to cause more issues than they are worth.  They are supposed to minimize erosion and local heating of the outside skin of the muffler, but occasionally fail in the way you experienced.  The funny thing is that any given day, the fleet of aircraft are flying around D with no flame tubes, because they have departed.  I have personally not seen a negative affect of no flame tubes….  I think there is even one overhauled who has approval to leave them out.  Not sure where I’m going with this except to vent about flame tubes that seem to be far more problematic then the problem they were supposed to solve.  I think they even scrub some power.  Has anybody seen a failure of the exhaust because the flame tubes were missing?

Perhaps before “flaming” about flame tubes maybe we should first find out how old and how many hours were on this muffler. Was it a previous rebuild or installed new?  

Posted
7 hours ago, Kirch56H said:

I will say that the FAA Inspector was amazing and did a great job. He never approached with the attitude that he was out to get me and if anything, he was extremely understanding and compassionate to the issues. He reiterated several times that I did the right thing and made safe decisions to result in this positive outcome. He said this is why we have emergency procedures and pilots should never hesitate to use them! Then he said, Never let your pride get in the way of your safety!

 

I've had to work with the FAA on matters that were my fault and I have had the same experience. Professional, helpful and not out to get anyone. If you are argumentative with them then I imagine they will be like that with you.

 

This was recently on my mind because I attended the "Quarter Turn Fasteners and Aircraft Accidents - No Way!" webinar this past Wednesday and there was as short discussion from an FAA inspector on whether they should "cheerlead" safety programs or be "enforcers and auditors". 

 

In case you're thinking that's a stupid webinar, I had my doubts, but it wasn't at all. It was very enlightening and informative.

 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Kirch56H said:

Just to update everyone, Upon inspection with the FAA Inspector and A&P/IA, they found that the internal baffles had broken off inside the muffler. The FAA Inspector and IA noticed heat marks and deformation on the inlet pipes going into the muffler housing indicating that the exhaust gases couldn't flow smoothly out of the exhaust and became trapped. They determined that the piece of the exhaust baffles had become lodged and obstructed almost all of the exhaust exit hole in the muffler, thus causing the immediate reduction in power and inability for the engine to run properly or make any power to maintain flight. They did say that they had seen this once before on a different aircraft and normally when a muffler fails the pieces simply blow out the tailpipe. I guess I got very unlucky that mine got stuck. I was very lucky however, that i had such a great spot to make an emergency landing!!

We got a new muffler overnighted and made the necessary repairs yesterday. The FAA approved all of the work and all the ground runs showed that the problem was corrected. I was able to take off yesterday afternoon with the plane and fly it back to my local field. I played it safe and made the trip at a high altitude so I had options should any issues arise on the way back. 

 

4 hours ago, takair said:

I suspect by baffle they are talking about the flame tubes?  They seem to cause more issues than they are worth.  They are supposed to minimize erosion and local heating of the outside skin of the muffler, but occasionally fail in the way you experienced.  The funny thing is that any given day, the fleet of aircraft are flying around D with no flame tubes, because they have departed.  I have personally not seen a negative affect of no flame tubes….  I think there is even one overhauled who has approval to leave them out.  Not sure where I’m going with this except to vent about flame tubes that seem to be far more problematic then the problem they were supposed to solve.  I think they even scrub some power.  Has anybody seen a failure of the exhaust because the flame tubes were missing?

 

1 hour ago, 1980Mooney said:

Perhaps before “flaming” about flame tubes maybe we should first find out how old and how many hours were on this muffler. Was it a previous rebuild or installed new? 

BTW - I see that @Kirch56H purchased the plane in 2022.  Notice that the "Prebuy Checklist" from Lasar suggests to check "Muffler System for cracks or flame tubes and/or Turbo Cracked" 

https://lasar.com/prebuy-check-list

Also the OP would have had at least one Annual since purchase.  Both the MOONEY INTERNATIONAL CORPORATION 50-Hour/100-Hour/Annual Maintenance Inspection Guide and the 100 Hour-Annual Inspection Guide say:

"EXHAUST SYSTEM:
1. Remove heater jacket & inspect exhaust system for
leaks & cracks; remove exhaust cavities, inspect area."

https://www.mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/100-HOURANNUAL-Inspection-Guide.pdf

https://themooneyflyer.com/pdf/Mooney100HourAnnualGuide.pdf

Someone should have put their eyes on the muffler/heat exchanger internals in the last year.  I wonder when anyone actually looked at it.  When was your last Annual?  I suppose that it might have looked perfect last Annual and completely disintegrated in the last few months but it seems unlikely.  Perhaps you should talk to your A&P/IA in order to confirm whether they actually did a proper Annual.

Edited by 1980Mooney
Posted
3 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

 

BTW - I see that @Kirch56H purchased the plane in 2022.  Notice that the "Prebuy Checklist" from Lasar suggests to check "Muffler System for cracks or flame tubes and/or Turbo Cracked" 

https://lasar.com/prebuy-check-list

Also the OP would have had at least one Annual since purchase.  Both the MOONEY INTERNATIONAL CORPORATION 50-Hour/100-Hour/Annual Maintenance Inspection Guide and the 100 Hour-Annual Inspection Guide say:

"EXHAUST SYSTEM:
1. Remove heater jacket & inspect exhaust system for
leaks & cracks; remove exhaust cavities, inspect area."

https://www.mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/100-HOURANNUAL-Inspection-Guide.pdf

https://themooneyflyer.com/pdf/Mooney100HourAnnualGuide.pdf

Someone should have put their eyes on the muffler/heat exchanger internals in the last year.  I wonder when anyone actually looked at it.  When was your last Annual?  I suppose that it might have looked perfect last Annual and completely disintegrated in the last few months but it seems unlikely.  Perhaps you should talk to your A&P/IA in order to confirm whether they actually did a proper Annual.

I had a very thorough prebuy done when I bought it and the Lasar checklist was completed with no shortcuts. We saw No indication of issues at that time. 
 

the annual was done at the beginning of the year and the baffles/flame tubes were checked and were fine at that time. the inspector said Normally when they fail, they break into small pieces and leave out the tailpipe. They don’t usually get discovered as “missing” until the next annual when it’s checked and found to be missing.

Based on the logs, this exhaust was repaired/replaced several years ago prior to my ownership. Based on a visual look inside It appeared that it cracked off completely and didn’t shows signs of thinning of the metal or rot or corrosion. I won’t name the shop that did the muffler rebuild. But I will say that I purchased a brand new unit to replace it. 

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Posted
7 hours ago, takair said:

I suspect by baffle they are talking about the flame tubes?  They seem to cause more issues than they are worth.  They are supposed to minimize erosion and local heating of the outside skin of the muffler, but occasionally fail in the way you experienced.  The funny thing is that any given day, the fleet of aircraft are flying around D with no flame tubes, because they have departed.  I have personally not seen a negative affect of no flame tubes….  I think there is even one overhauled who has approval to leave them out.  Not sure where I’m going with this except to vent about flame tubes that seem to be far more problematic then the problem they were supposed to solve.  I think they even scrub some power.  Has anybody seen a failure of the exhaust because the flame tubes were missing?

+1.    When I first bought my flexible (semi-rigid) borescope I ran it up my exhaust like an eager proctologist and discovered that the flame tube in my muffler was 100% missing.    There were little tiny broken nubs left at each end to indicate that there had, in fact, been one there at one time, but it was totally gone now. 

They're there to dissipate the energy of an exhaust afterfire (aka 'backfire'), to reduce the likelihood of causing a crack in the muffler which can create a CO issue in the cabin.   That said, they don't really even do that much, but it's kinda what they're there for.    The inspection criterion in the J SMM is just that there aren't any pieces clogging up the exhaust flow, so not having one at all passes inspection.    I like not having one since that means it can't break and clog it up like happened to the OP here, and huge kudos and grateful thoughts that way for it coming out well.

My hangar neighbors say my airplane sounds cool, and I suspect that the missing flame tube may be a contributor to that.  ;)

 

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Posted
5 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

 

BTW - I see that @Kirch56H purchased the plane in 2022.  Notice that the "Prebuy Checklist" from Lasar suggests to check "Muffler System for cracks or flame tubes and/or Turbo Cracked" 

https://lasar.com/prebuy-check-list

Also the OP would have had at least one Annual since purchase.  Both the MOONEY INTERNATIONAL CORPORATION 50-Hour/100-Hour/Annual Maintenance Inspection Guide and the 100 Hour-Annual Inspection Guide say:

"EXHAUST SYSTEM:
1. Remove heater jacket & inspect exhaust system for
leaks & cracks; remove exhaust cavities, inspect area."

https://www.mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/100-HOURANNUAL-Inspection-Guide.pdf

https://themooneyflyer.com/pdf/Mooney100HourAnnualGuide.pdf

Someone should have put their eyes on the muffler/heat exchanger internals in the last year.  I wonder when anyone actually looked at it.  When was your last Annual?  I suppose that it might have looked perfect last Annual and completely disintegrated in the last few months but it seems unlikely.  Perhaps you should talk to your A&P/IA in order to confirm whether they actually did a proper Annual.

The problem is that they are not easy to inspect to see they are going to fail in the near future.  You would have to remove the stacks to come close to telling the condition of the tubes…..basically you would need to remove the entire muffler.  This would be out of scope for most pre-buys, quite invasive.  I would argue that it’s out of scope for most annuals.  That leaves only the tail pipe as a way to see only a small portion of the tubes.  Even a borescope leaves you with limited ability to see all of the tubes.  As Eric mentioned, one thing they are there for might be to protect from “backfire”, but ironically, this might be exactly the thing that causes them to dislodge and then they can migrate during flight to block the exhaust…or hopefully just fall out.  I think that in this day, a CO detector and annual removal of the heat shield (to inspect the externals of the muffler) can become our first line of defence and maybe it’s time to consider saying good bye to flame tubes.

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Posted
23 hours ago, EricJ said:

 

My hangar neighbors say my airplane sounds cool, and I suspect that the missing flame tube may be a contributor to that.  ;)

 

It is, because every aircraft muffler that I’ve seen the insides of the flame tube is the baffle, without it, it’s just a can. Aircraft mufflers are more of an attempt in no restriction than they are at muffling, and many older aircraft have no mufflers at all, my C-140 is straight piped from the factory and I’ve never seen a muffler on a Radial.

My 140 sounds more like an old tractor at idle and taxi RPM than an airplane

I have seen aircraft muffler cans overheated from the flame tube being missing, Maule sells the tubes for their mufflers and it’s easy to remove the end of their muffler and replace the tube and weld the muffler end back on, but you should only do it once, by the time the tube is gone again it’s probable that the muffler itself has gotten thin enough to be unsafe.

Posted

The way I inspect….

buy a cheap $20 borescope on eBay that has a plug in for I phone or samsung

tape it to a copper capillary (very thin copper tubing). The copper can be arc such that you can fish it through the tailpipe into the muffler

upon examination…most of my baffles were blown away

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