Landing issues

[Htmlkid]

So I use to own an M20F and have over 250 hours in it and never had any issues landing it. Recently I purchased a M20J 205 and 2 out of 8 landings I've had the plane pulled hard left immediately upon landing and im struggling to figure out if its me or an intermittent issues with the aircraft. Any thoughts or ideas?

[hammdo]

Hitting the brakes maybe? May want to slide your feet back a little. Try that first to make sure you’re not hitting the brakes…

-Don

[Ragsf15e]

Other thing is if you have crosswind controls in and maintain the rudder through nosewheel touchdown, she’s gonna zip.

[1980Mooney]

38 minutes ago, hammdo said:

Hitting the brakes maybe? May want to slide your feet back a little. Try that first to make sure you’re not hitting the brakes…

 

34 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Other thing is if you have crosswind controls in and maintain the rudder through nosewheel touchdown, she’s gonna zip.

The OP has already perfected landing an F. I don’t think the problem is technique or proficiency. I think the issue is related to the plane. 

[Htmlkid]

13 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

The OP has already perfected landing an F. I don’t think the problem is technique or proficiency. I think the issue is related to the plane. 

That's what has me so puzzled.... I don't think landing wise there sb anything different between the F and the J.... but if its the plane you would think it would happen on every landing....

[hubcap]

Sounds like a plane issue to me. I have 100’s of landings in my K and it has never pulled hard either right or left on landing.

[N201MKTurbo]

https://web.archive.org/web/20190207032823/http://donmaxwell.com/the-eight-second-ride-sb-m20-202/

 

[M20S Driver]

How high is the RPM at touch down?  Are you already at Idle?  At higher RPMs, gyroscopic forces may cause this.

[Htmlkid]

12 minutes ago, M20S Driver said:

How high is the RPM at touch down?  Are you already at Idle?  At higher RPMs, gyroscopic forces may cause this.

I have always been full forward with the prop and around 13 on MP and just before touch down I pull the MP to idle.

[Htmlkid]

41 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190207032823/http://donmaxwell.com/the-eight-second-ride-sb-m20-202/

 

But that is aircraft up to 1977 and mine is a 1988

[N201MKTurbo]

14 minutes ago, Htmlkid said:

But that is aircraft up to 1977 and mine is a 1988

Wouldn’t hurt to check.

[GeeBee]

15 minutes ago, Htmlkid said:

But that is aircraft up to 1977 and mine is a 1988

I am sure your nose strut has been disassembled and reassembled since 1988. Maybe someone forgot the spacer ?

[Htmlkid]

2 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Wouldn’t hurt to check.

Absolutely Im going to ......

[hammdo]

2 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

The OP has already perfected landing an F. I don’t think the problem is technique or proficiency. I think the issue is related to the plane. 

Wouldn’t hurt to see it there are pedal extensions- just to be sure. 
-Don

[1980Mooney]

51 minutes ago, Htmlkid said:

Absolutely Im going to ......

You mention this is a recent purchase. Did they check the steering horn for play during the pre-buy examination?

[Ragsf15e]

3 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

The OP has already perfected landing an F. I don’t think the problem is technique or proficiency. I think the issue is related to the plane. 

Probably, but unwise to assume you’re “perfect” in a new model regardless of experience. A J is a little heavier and may have a different cg causing the nose to touchdown different than his previous experience. Also a new airplane takes a while to get use to.  New avionics, different sounds, feels, etc all get people out of their normal habits.  I’d recommend ruling out easy things first- pilot errors.  

When you’re pretty sure there’s definitely something wrong, putting it on jacks and looking for play in the nose or looking at the 8” ride info is probably good too.

[1980Mooney]

56 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Probably, but unwise to assume you’re “perfect” in a new model regardless of experience. A J is a little heavier and may have a different cg causing the nose to touchdown different than his previous experience. Also a new airplane takes a while to get use to.  New avionics, different sounds, feels, etc all get people out of their normal habits.  I’d recommend ruling out easy things first- pilot errors.  

When you’re pretty sure there’s definitely something wrong, putting it on jacks and looking for play in the nose or looking at the 8” ride info is probably good too.

The F and the 1988 205 (as produced) had the same 2,740 Max GW and the same CG limitations.  This 205 may or may not have gotten the GW increase but the standard CG profile is the same as the F.  Yes the throttle quadrant is different and who knows about whatever avionics it has today, It should handle essentially the same. 

[Alan Maurer]

Me too. Discussed it here. Usually in a crosswind. Holding right or left rudder will also turn nose wheel ...is my understanding...so

necessary to neutralize rudder as nose is lowered. For crosswinds...keep aileron to hold down upwind wing. 

everyone please jump in and comment!

Alan

Ovation M20R

[Htmlkid]

4 hours ago, hammdo said:

Wouldn’t hurt to see it there are pedal extensions- just to be sure. 
-Don

I dont think there is but I will double check

[Htmlkid]

4 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

You mention this is a recent purchase. Did they check the steering horn for play during the pre-buy examination?

It was a full annual and Ilm assuming they did...... but Im having a mechanic check the full underside again.

[PT20J]

8 hours ago, Htmlkid said:

It was a full annual and Ilm assuming they did...... but Im having a mechanic check the full underside again.

Mooney steering is a weak point. They all have some slop, even when new, and it gets worse as things wear. The slop manifests as a dead zone in the center of the steering range which causes a lot of footwork when taxiing to keep it straight. At higher speeds, it centers better because of the caster in the nose gear geometry provides a self-centering effect that increases with speed. The caster should cause the nose wheel to center on touchdown unless you hold rudder pressure. 

Since this only happened twice rather than consistently, it may not be the airplane. I would go out on a clam day and shoot some landings and see if I could figure out if it were me or the airplane. 

Skip

[hypertech]

if its darting around, check for a stuck caliper, see if the brake fluid has turned to gel, and check the nose gear to make sure its tight.  When I got my plane it did this and was a combination of all three.  Rebuilt nose gear truss from LASAR and fixing the stuck caliper went a long way.

[Mufflerbearing]

On 7/13/2023 at 1:54 PM, hypertech said:

if its darting around, check for a stuck caliper, see if the brake fluid has turned to gel, and check the nose gear to make sure its tight.  When I got my plane it did this and was a combination of all three.  Rebuilt nose gear truss from LASAR and fixing the stuck caliper went a long way.

This is exactly my thought.  If you have a dragging caliper, it'll certainly pull hard to that side.

[gevertex]

Was there any wind during landing? I've noticed a gusty cross wind that kicks up after landing can sometimes cause me to need to react quickly with the rudder pedals to prevent a runway departure. This mostly appears to be related to slop between the nose wheel and rudder pedals. I'd check to see if you have any slop either between your rudder and pedals or pedals to nose wheel. Might be illuminating.

[Shadrach]

Are you landing nose high mains first? Does it happen before the nose touches?

I am betting it’s in the nose gear. I would get it up on jacks and inspect everything. Carefully inspect the linkage for play and the truss for cracks. It’s conceivable that a crack in the truss might flex open under the load of touchdown changing geometry yet be nearly invisible to the naked eye on the ramp.