PC wing leveler installation

[jwarren2]

Hi All,

I have a question pertaining to the PC wing leveler. Can I install a PC system out of a 65 C model into a 63 C model ?  I know some of you are going to think I'm foolish but I am a VFR pilot and really do not have a need for a 20 grand Garmin. I was thinking something that would follow a heading bug or a GPS input would be nice on a long trip. I was hoping maybe I could install it with just a 337 or do they require an STC like the S Tec? I was thinking that being factory installed in a like model might get me around the expensive STC paperwork . Thanks in advance for your comments.

Joe Warren

N857JW

[Utah20Gflyer]

I would ask your AP/IA what they thought as they responsible for determining if it is acceptable.
 

I  actually just pulled the wing leveler system out of m plane because I’m intending on installing a modern autopilot.  

[Shadrach]

I don't see why not.  Was it an option in 63? You may be able to do it with nothing more than Mooney factory drawings.

[Shadrach]

  On 3/7/2023 at 10:24 PM, Utah20Gflyer said:

I would ask your AP/IA what they thought as they responsible for determining if it is acceptable.
 

I  actually just pulled the wing leveler system out of m plane because I’m intending on installing a modern autopilot.  

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Tell us about the system you removed.  Does it have a heading bug or is it just a leveler?

Hope your new AP treats you well. A lot of folks bulk at the old Brittain stuff because it looks so antiquated. To those who know and understand the system, it is incredibly reliable as well as easy and inexpensive to maintain.

[Utah20Gflyer]

I have the leveler with a knob that you can use to turn the plane one way or the other.  It doesn’t do a heading, just keeps the wings level.   Its from a 1968 G model

[McMooney]

mine follows pink and green lines, 

has a knob to follow magnetic heading but not the DG, i guess they align if i sync the dg to my compass 8)

wish it had altitude hold.  I'd really be interested if i could find the bi-818 to make it follow the dg.

even has an approach mode that actually works.

but

if i had to install something today, i'd probably pay duncan and go trutrak for  8 to 10k 

[takair]

  On 3/7/2023 at 9:23 PM, jwarren2 said:

Hi All,

I have a question pertaining to the PC wing leveler. Can I install a PC system out of a 65 C model into a 63 C model ?  I know some of you are going to think I'm foolish but I am a VFR pilot and really do not have a need for a 20 grand Garmin. I was thinking something that would follow a heading bug or a GPS input would be nice on a long trip. I was hoping maybe I could install it with just a 337 or do they require an STC like the S Tec? I was thinking that being factory installed in a like model might get me around the expensive STC paperwork . Thanks in advance for your comments.

Joe Warren

N857JW

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Almost sure you can.  Call Cecelia at Brittain, she will provide the paperwork you need.  They still have a web presence with contact info.  

[takair]

http://www.brittainautopilots.com

[Greg Ellis]

  On 3/7/2023 at 10:25 PM, Shadrach said:

I don't see why not.  Was it an option in 63? You may be able to do it with nothing more than Mooney factory drawings.

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I don’t think it was an option in 63.  I think it was first installed in 1965.  Don’t quote me on it but I remember seeing that somewhere.

[takair]

  On 3/8/2023 at 3:11 AM, Greg Ellis said:

I don’t think it was an option in 63.  I think it was first installed in 1965.  Don’t quote me on it but I remember seeing that somewhere.

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It was added to my 1964 E in 1965. 

[Pasturepilot]

@jwarren2 I’ve got a 65C model with the PC wing leveler and I love it, although getting it rehabilitated was a slow process. 
 

a friend with a B model was entertaining thoughts of installing one. Anything can be done, with deep enough pockets, but his didn’t have the brackets for the actuators installed and after studying it for a while, we decided that trying to engineer the PC system into his airplane wasn’t worth the headache. The brackets for mounting the actuators weren’t installed in his plane so there was going to be a bit of sheet metal work in tight spaces to achieve his goal. 

[takair]

  On 3/8/2023 at 12:16 PM, bluehighwayflyer said:

Did they have to install ‘65 ailerons as part of the conversion?   I seem to recall that that was part of the PC development.  

Agreed that installing the brackets for the servos, especially in the wing, would be quite difficult.
 

Jim

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Yes, had to get the new ailerons.  I have to agree, adding PC could be rather labor intensive.  Would need to track down salvage brackets…..and ailerons, which I had forgotten about.  Certainly doable with some shopping around and elbow grease, but one must be dedicated.   

[outermarker]

The wing leveler first came out in '65 by Brittain. It requires a vacuum system to operate. None of the parts are currently being made. Parts can be found to make a working system. To have a system to track a heading bug or VOR needle is just another small step in used equipment. The ONE big concern is the rubber that makes up the servos. Despite what one might think, the rubber will deteriorate with age, even NOS. Those of us still using this system have found methods to patch the pin holes and small tears in order to have a servo that won't leak. And just how far will you trust a patched servo? This problem is with all aircraft manufactures that used the Brittain system. My understanding is the current owner is not interested in ever producing parts. From a liability stand point, I understand. However, if somehow the owner produced parts route could be used perhaps the liability issue won't be an issue. 

[47U]

There was an autopilot option in ‘63… built by ARC.  This stuff is all removed, but I did keep my DME 890 with a new display.  (The CP 136 was working great when I took it out, all the lights work… in case someone needs one.) 

The servo was under the panel, and a heading gyro in the tail on the avionics rack.  No servos in the wing. 

[takair]

  On 3/8/2023 at 6:11 PM, outermarker said:

The wing leveler first came out in '65 by Brittain. It requires a vacuum system to operate. None of the parts are currently being made. Parts can be found to make a working system. To have a system to track a heading bug or VOR needle is just another small step in used equipment. The ONE big concern is the rubber that makes up the servos. Despite what one might think, the rubber will deteriorate with age, even NOS. Those of us still using this system have found methods to patch the pin holes and small tears in order to have a servo that won't leak. And just how far will you trust a patched servo? This problem is with all aircraft manufactures that used the Brittain system. My understanding is the current owner is not interested in ever producing parts. From a liability stand point, I understand. However, if somehow the owner produced parts route could be used perhaps the liability issue won't be an issue. 

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Got a little info recently that they may be a little closer to doing servos, at a minimum, It is not hopeless. 

[takair]

  On 3/9/2023 at 11:55 PM, 47U said:

There was an autopilot option in ‘63… built by ARC.  This stuff is all removed, but I did keep my DME 890 with a new display.  (The CP 136 was working great when I took it out, all the lights work… in case someone needs one.) 

The servo was under the panel, and a heading gyro in the tail on the avionics rack.  No servos in the wing. 

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A friend has some spares for this system.  Not sure, but may have servo too.  Would need rejuvenation, but might be an option for someone..

[Noreaster]

Someone on MS suggested silicone bathing caps as a substitute for the original servo boots.  They are not only readily available, they are inexpensive and remain flexible in sub zero temps.