Youth and women in aviation

[DonMuncy]

To avoid hijacking the other thread: Becca wrote:

 "But I am also going to blame the local flying community for discouraging young aviators. I can't even begin to count how many social flying events that I've attempted to attend that could qualify as a bunch of old guys (I mean older than my father).  Apparently you have to volunteer for CAF for like 20 years before they let you near the controls of one of their planes.  The MAPA convention was just plane weirdly old.  I love flying like they do, but its really not enough in common to have a long lunch conversation, let alone feel like part of a community". 

I agree that we have become a community of old men, but for my part, I, and I sincerely hope, most of us, do not want it that way. I was extremely glad to see the number of new younger people at the MAPA convention. I tried to go out of my way to meet and talk to as many of them as I could. I have to admit, I didn't buddy up to the women there, mostly because I don't wnat to appear to be hitting on them. (Yes, I know at my age, I am unlikely to be considered a threat by anyone, but I still a little careful about it.) But believe me Becca, I would enjoy talking flying with you as fast as I would with a male pilot.

AOPA has heretofore had a student pilot mentoring program encouraging us to introduce non flyers into the process of obtaining a license. I have attempted three times to utilize the AOPA mentoring program to get people who expressed an interest in becoming a pilot, into flight training. Not one of them started. Perhaps if I could concentrate my efforts on those already in training, I might have better results.

I therefore intend to, and encourage all pilots to consider, contacting a flight school at the airport. I will ask them to seek permission from one (or more) of their students to furnish me with contact information so I can call or email the student to offer to meet, mentor or otherwise make myself available to try to keep them interested in pursuing flying. Perhaps showing them around my hangar and plane, taking them for a $100 hamburger, or just plain talking flying with them will reinforce the belief they are part of our community.

I challenge all other pilots to give it a try.

And, Becca, if you have any ideas about what I (or we) can do to make the female Mooney folks feel more included, please let us know.

[Becca]

So I really appreciate that you are willing to begin this conversation.  Though I don't know the right way to "end" it...   I can tell you my own impressions.  But be warned, this is coming from a bleeding heart whacky liberal feminist .  10 years ago, when I was younger (ok, I am still pretty young!), I would have replied to say both the "old guys" and the young women and everyone in between should just learn to get along to share our common interest in flying.  When I was in college, I tried to join CAF so I could learn more about maintaining old airplanes and was told "the wives" (never mind that I was 19, an aerospace engineering student, and not married) usually took care of the interior and cleaning the planes and asked how I felt abou those duties.  That was the last time I went to a CAF meeting.

So, back then, I used to blame the "old guys" for creating a hostile environment.  But that really isn't the case, over time I appreciate where you are coming from.  I have to say, I prefer the company of my girlfriends in social settings to most older men (who I respect through work and enjoy trading stories on the ramp at the airport) ... but I have a unique set of girlfriends - engineers and scientists like me, not exactly "girly girls" though we all love our pedicures too, several of them have even learned to fly (though are taking hiatuses for their young children.)  At the MAPA convention, I made sure, for instance, to go to the "women's lunch", to meet some of the other women at the convention, but then got annoyed when one of the woman at the table scolded me for not going to the "pinch hitter" course, despite my hundreds of hours of flying experience.  Sometimes you get caught in the middle when you don't quite fit in with the wives or the male pilots.  In some ways, men closer to my age aren't quite as old fashioned about not being buddy-buddy with members of the opposite sex, and that definitely helps, though its not the perfect solution.  So I have sought out my own solutions - like making a concerted effort to connect with other female pilots - like 99s, WIA, or even the other women who race in SARL or other air races.  The MAPA convention was, in general, was as welcoming as I could possibly expect for the demographic, I have had many far more uncomfortable experiences - you should have seen me at a local FAA air safety seminar on owner-performed maintenance where I was both the only woman and only one of two people under the age of 50, where I had to hold my tongue from teasing an "old guy" for being unwilling to change his own oil (something I learned to do when I was 18).  I don't think that would have gone over well.

I guess the best thing you can do is understand that someone like me goes to place like the MAPA convention and I have to force myself outside my comfort zone and interact with different people than I would otherwise be comfortable with because I have no other option (there were two other women pilots I talked to at MAPA, both entirely fascinating and interesting, but not enough to make up a "convention").  However someone like you doesn't have to force that sort of interaction, you can stay in your comfort zone without it really impacting you - there are dozens of "old guys" choose from and you only had to avoid a couple women - Don, that said, trust me, you, by far, weren't in the least uncomfortable interacting with someone like me at the convention .

Anyway, I don't have any solutions. I guess the best someone like you can do is realize the few young and female and minority and whatever pilots floating around do feel at least a little out of place, and make an effort to include them where you can.  But I do think women leave flying because after they've overcome the "challenge" of learnign to fly, they don't see a clear path of how to turn it into a hobby that they can share with other people and maybe for women in general - certainly for me - community, socialization, etc, is an extremely important part of enjoying something.  But I appreciate posts like this and people who make the effort to reach out with young people and women and interact, etc.    Just my impressions, I speculate many women pilots have different experiences..  

[Hank]

Sounds like it all comes down to a sense of community. Maybe being based at a small airport helps with this, but my fellow pilots have become a second family to us. Some we see frequently, some less often, but we all have flying in common. It's nice to know when I'm out traveling that people at home are checking up on me and following along on Flight Aware.

The group that I hang out with has >20 year age span from youngest [40+] to oldest. We have fun flying and even when we can't. Find some good folks to hang out with, and encourage new pilots and students to make friends around the pilot lounge. Join your local Pilots Association. Hang out and meet other [obsessed] people. I've not been able to make a MAPA convention yet, but I hope to soon. As a freshly-licensed VFR-only pilot, I felt a little out of it when I attended the PPP [i hit 100 hours total enroute], partly from being on the young side, partly from being inexperienced generally, and part from my very little Mooney knowledge [i completed my insurance dual 32 days before the PPP].

That's a great thing about this Board! Many people come here, some with years of practical experience flying, maintaining and upgrading our planes. We all have stories to share and things to learn. Sure, face to face is nice, but this resource is much better than having only the few people we meet in person. How many local Mooney pilots do you know? If you're like most of us, you can count them on your fingers with some left over.

Just make friends! I have work friends, flying friends, social friends and family friends. Some people count in more than one group. It makes life more pleasant. Flying is more fun with someone beside you, and having another plane along is also fun.