My Birdy is FAMOUS

[McMooney]

woot, starting at about 43seconds

 

[Pinecone]

Sweet

[GeeBee]

Cool

By the way don't let them use the land for non-aviation use. Once you lease that land out, you never get it. back. Ask me how I know.

 

 

[1980Mooney]

The Sugar Land Airport (KSGR) in this video really wants to just cater to corporate, business and commercial aviation.  It makes a minimal commitment to non-commercial/non-business aviation like us General Aviation here on MS.  They built 99 T-Hangars in 2009 and tore down all the inexpensive T-Hangars on the north side of the field (Ask me how I know!)  Hangar rent for a Mooney went from $250/month for the old hangars immediately to $485/month at the time.  They started raising rent 2 years later and now the rent is $587/month. - it has been at that for a while so I am bracing for another rent increase.   And hangar rules here in Texas are probably as strict or more strict than other states - no modification of hangar of any kind, no heaters, no storage of anything non-aviation, all flammables in flame proof cabinets, no electrical devices on at all when not attended, you provide the liability insurance (airport covers nothing), etc.

The airport has no plans to build any more T-hangars for general aviation and no plans to build any more tie down for GA.  This has come up several times before in the past 13 years.  They will just keep raising rent. All new hangar construction has been for business, commercial and large private use.

The City is touting the fact they can get a better return for the City and Residents by using the land for non-aviation use (I think they see it as "diversification").  They will just keep raising GA hangar rent.  Quite frankly I don't think they really care if they lose GA activity at KSGR - that will just give them more opportunity to turn the hangars into business/commercial use.

[TheAv8r]

I've been flying out of SGR for 5 years and still consider it to be one of the best airports in Houston. The hangar rent for a Mooney is $483/mo. and it's been that same price for the last 5 years. Still has not gone up even with inflation. It's not $587/mo, unless you're in a larger hangar, and those have been the same price as well. 

They don't need to build more t-hangars for GA, the ones they have aren't full. Hangar availability has never been an issue at SGR. The tie-downs are also rarely full, Anson owns the ones in front of their space and I think they are about 2/3 full maybe?

They just put in a brand new self serve fuel pump that only pumps 100LL, serves nobody but GA. The hangars have air conditioned/heated bathrooms at the end of the row, you get access to a nice pilot lounge with showers, wifi, an ice machine, water, Keurig coffee maker, computer, printer, etc. The hangars are nice, automatic doors, sprayed for bugs, the taxiways are large. Go hang out at AXH's t-hangars for a bit where the underside of your wing is being scraped by weeds as you taxi around the t-hangars and the insides drip rust in between spiders (at $450/mo, btw). IWS t-hangars are over $600/mo. and offer none of these benefits. For the area, SGR offers some of the nicest, most well-maintained hangars and taxiway environments at the most competitive price.

I do agree hangar rules are strict and stricter than I like / they should be.

[McMooney]

1 hour ago, TheAv8r said:

I've been flying out of SGR for 5 years and still consider it to be one of the best airports in Houston. The hangar rent for a Mooney is $483/mo. and it's been that same price for the last 5 years. Still has not gone up even with inflation. It's not $587/mo, unless you're in a larger hangar, and those have been the same price as well. 

They don't need to build more t-hangars for GA, the ones they have aren't full. Hangar availability has never been an issue at SGR. The tie-downs are also rarely full, Anson owns the ones in front of their space and I think they are about 2/3 full maybe?

They just put in a brand new self serve fuel pump that only pumps 100LL, serves nobody but GA. The hangars have air conditioned/heated bathrooms at the end of the row, you get access to a nice pilot lounge with showers, wifi, an ice machine, water, Keurig coffee maker, computer, printer, etc. The hangars are nice, automatic doors, sprayed for bugs, the taxiways are large. Go hang out at AXH's t-hangars for a bit where the underside of your wing is being scraped by weeds as you taxi around the t-hangars and the insides drip rust in between spiders (at $450/mo, btw). IWS t-hangars are over $600/mo. and offer none of these benefits. For the area, SGR offers some of the nicest, most well-maintained hangars and taxiway environments at the most competitive price.

I do agree hangar rules are strict and stricter than I like / they should be.

I'm really enjoying my new T-Hangar,  kinda bummed about not being allowed a TV though.  The wife called it an aircraft Hilton

 

[1980Mooney]

1 hour ago, TheAv8r said:

I've been flying out of SGR for 5 years and still consider it to be one of the best airports in Houston. The hangar rent for a Mooney is $483/mo. and it's been that same price for the last 5 years. Still has not gone up even with inflation. It's not $587/mo, unless you're in a larger hangar, and those have been the same price as well. 

They don't need to build more t-hangars for GA, the ones they have aren't full. Hangar availability has never been an issue at SGR. The tie-downs are also rarely full, Anson owns the ones in front of their space and I think they are about 2/3 full maybe?

They just put in a brand new self serve fuel pump that only pumps 100LL, serves nobody but GA. The hangars have air conditioned/heated bathrooms at the end of the row, you get access to a nice pilot lounge with showers, wifi, an ice machine, water, Keurig coffee maker, computer, printer, etc. The hangars are nice, automatic doors, sprayed for bugs, the taxiways are large. Go hang out at AXH's t-hangars for a bit where the underside of your wing is being scraped by weeds as you taxi around the t-hangars and the insides drip rust in between spiders (at $450/mo, btw). IWS t-hangars are over $600/mo. and offer none of these benefits. For the area, SGR offers some of the nicest, most well-maintained hangars and taxiway environments at the most competitive price.

I do agree hangar rules are strict and stricter than I like / they should be.

If you have a Mooney with the winglets at KSGR - any later J or modified J, K, Bravo, Ovation, Acclaim or any short body with winglets added they bump you into the larger hangar -

A Mooney without winglets wingspan is 35'.  With winglets it is 36'-1".  The cut-off on hangar size is 35'-8".  Winglets are 5" over the allowed wingspan on the smaller hangar and will cost you $104/mo. at Sugar Land.  They will bring a tape measure out.  There is no negotiation with them.  I have argued with them since the hangars were built.

And also the Lease says technically that you are not allowed to conduct any maintenance of your plane in the hangar.  You are supposed to pay to have then tow it to a maintenance hangar on the west side of the airport.

The Sugar Land T-hangars and tie-downs are not full because the prices are so high.  I agree that KIWS is a rip off - I was there in the late 90's.  It is just a matter of time before KIWS gets redeveloped....like Andrau, Westheimer and Weiser.

[Fly Boomer]

4 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

And hangar rules here in Texas are probably as strict or more strict than other states - no modification of hangar of any kind, no heaters, no storage of anything non-aviation, all flammables in flame proof cabinets, no electrical devices on at all when not attended, you provide the liability insurance (airport covers nothing), etc.

i think that is the future at all airports owned by cities and counties.

[N201MKTurbo]

Our airport is very GA friendly. It is about 95% piston GA. It is also one of the busiest airports in the country. The new airport operations manager owns two Cessna's.

[GeeBee]

The airport where I am at leased out large tracts for industrial use. Now they can't get it back. We missed having a large corporate operation (G-V) because there was no land to build a hangar.

 

[Sue Bon]

8 hours ago, GeeBee said:

The airport where I am at leased out large tracts for industrial use. Now they can't get it back.

I'm so glad you answered the "ask me how I know" question. I was wondering!

[TheAv8r]

17 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

If you have a Mooney with the winglets at KSGR - any later J or modified J, K, Bravo, Ovation, Acclaim or any short body with winglets added they bump you into the larger hangar -

A Mooney without winglets wingspan is 35'.  With winglets it is 36'-1".  The cut-off on hangar size is 35'-8".  Winglets are 5" over the allowed wingspan on the smaller hangar and will cost you $104/mo. at Sugar Land.  They will bring a tape measure out.  There is no negotiation with them.  I have argued with them since the hangars were built.

And also the Lease says technically that you are not allowed to conduct any maintenance of your plane in the hangar.  You are supposed to pay to have then tow it to a maintenance hangar on the west side of the airport.

The Sugar Land T-hangars and tie-downs are not full because the prices are so high.  I agree that KIWS is a rip off - I was there in the late 90's.  It is just a matter of time before KIWS gets redeveloped....like Andrau, Westheimer and Weiser.

Just depends which Mooney you have then. There are 4 Mooneys in my hangar row (Bravo bank). If your wingspan is bigger than the hangar, it's bigger than the hangar. 

The maintenance rule is annoying, but also the same at IWS and TME. It was also the same where I hangared out at west Texas years ago, most of the time it's related to the shop on the field having an agreement with the airport. It sucks, but is becoming more and more common.

DWH, AXH and TME aren't any cheaper... I agree it's expensive, but they aren't crazy for the market and the area. EFD is even more expensive, had a buddy who had his Comanche hangared there and it was like $650. In fact I think it's one of the better deals because you get a lot more for the same/less amount.

[N201MKTurbo]

29 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

 

 

I think pilots forget that the location and life of most airports is primarily dependent upon the availability of underutilized and undervalued land.  It has less to do with pilot/owner convince, need or value.  Airports are not great money makers for anyone - hangar, landing and fuel fees are hard pressed to cover expenses with massive amounts of land and perimeter to maintain.   Most need Federal handouts for capital improvements. For instance, Texas receives the largest Block Grant of funds for GA airports - $27 million in 2022(think of it as "airport welfare")

Once urban sprawl with industrial and residential users surrounds the airport then value rises.  It is then time for the airport to sell to developers and move on.   This especially true for privately owned airports and the history of airports in the west.  Bill Cutter who founded Cutter Aviation in Albuquerque built 3 different airports in ABQ before shrinking to their current location at the Sunport.  Each time the city grew he would sell the airport to developers for the latest subdivision. And cities/counties are no different - Look at the City of Austin.  Robert Mueller Municipal Airport was so well located and so convenient for travel to Austin before it was closed and sold to developers in 1999.  And like said on the West side of Houston 3 privately owned GA airports have been sold during the same period - Andrau, Westheimer and Weiser.  West Houston and David Wayne Hooks are also privately owned - it is just a matter of time for them too....

Yes, but most cities have large expanses of land set aside for the use of its citizens (parks). These don’t generate much revenue. Maybe we should call them aviation parks.

Which brings us to Miggs Field in Chicago. It closed the airport and turned it into a park. Every time I’ve been there there was almost nobody using the park. They just hated the airport. I landed there once BTW. So it isn’t always the revenue thing.

[Mooneymite]

Every time I read one of these threads about hangar availability/cost/restrictions, I wonder why more pilots don't go the fly-in community route.  Owning your own hangar on your own land on a community owned/controlled runway is hard to beat.

While building your own hangar to include all of the required add-ons (man cave, workshop, beer cooler, etc) is not cheap, there will be a chance to recoup all that when you sell.

With so many people working remotely, living with your plane has never been more doable.

[Guest]

On 10/25/2022 at 5:29 PM, 1980Mooney said:

If you have a Mooney with the winglets at KSGR - any later J or modified J, K, Bravo, Ovation, Acclaim or any short body with winglets added they bump you into the larger hangar -

A Mooney without winglets wingspan is 35'.  With winglets it is 36'-1".  The cut-off on hangar size is 35'-8".  Winglets are 5" over the allowed wingspan on the smaller hangar and will cost you $104/mo. at Sugar Land.  They will bring a tape measure out.  There is no negotiation with them.  I have argued with them since the hangars were built.

And also the Lease says technically that you are not allowed to conduct any maintenance of your plane in the hangar.  You are supposed to pay to have then tow it to a maintenance hangar on the west side of the airport.

The Sugar Land T-hangars and tie-downs are not full because the prices are so high.  I agree that KIWS is a rip off - I was there in the late 90's.  It is just a matter of time before KIWS gets redeveloped....like Andrau, Westheimer and Weiser.

Wow those doors are awfully high!  A 42’ tall door for an 11’ tall plane

[1980Mooney]

2 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Wow those doors are awfully high!  A 42’ tall door for an 11’ tall plane

Yeah…..I think that is a typo that they never corrected in 13 years!  No telling what other things are incorrect. I would estimate they are about 14 ft wide open. 

[skykrawler]

The hangar is the largest expense for my airplane.  Nothing comes close.  It's more than 100 hours of fuel at todays fuel prices.

Inelastic demand - fuel and hangars.

 

[Fly Boomer]

2 hours ago, skykrawler said:

The hangar is the largest expense for my airplane.  Nothing comes close.  It's more than 100 hours of fuel at todays fuel prices.

Inelastic demand - fuel and hangars.

 

Wow!  That's an expensive hangar.  Just some "back of the evelope" numbers:
10 GPH * 100 HRS/YR = 1,000 GAL/YR
1,000 GAL/YR * $10/GAL = $10,000/YR
My hangar cost is roughly a third of that.

[Hank]

6 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Wow!  That's an expensive hangar.  Just some "back of the evelope" numbers:
10 GPH * 100 HRS/YR = 1,000 GAL/YR
1,000 GAL/YR * $10/GAL = $10,000/YR
My hangar cost is roughly a third of that.

Mine is a quarter of @skykrawler! OMG!! That's awful!

[McMooney]

wow, same here, my hanger is more expensive than gas for 100 hrs

500*12 = 6000

6 * 1000 = 6000

Sad, I'm now thinking of it that way

Edited October 29, 2022 by McMooney

[skykrawler]

That was the gas price I was thinking about.    I do have a waste oil heater, hot water and a shower

 

[rickseeman]

Should I feel guilty about paying $75 per month for hangar rent in Arkansas?

[hammdo]

Hell yes ;o)

-Don

[A64Pilot]

You know, honestly you guys that pay $500 a month or so for a hangar ought to if possible investigate an air park home, that $500 a month would probably buy a hangar and your building equity in it.

IF there is an air park close enough