Are the steam backup gauges required in the Acclaim?

[HH60HLDG]

MFNG wannabe In search of a 2000 or newer FIKI Bravo, or older Acclaim. came across the ‘07 Acclaim in Gulfport, has both fiki & ac…must be very heavy!  Could there be a double win in removing the horribly misplaced b/u gauges and also clawing back a few pounds?  Perhaps replace what seems to be a tertiary b/u set with something like a Dynon D3 if they are not required equipment? &, yes, saw post discussing the human factors fail, along with the pic of the bird with the m/c Sam all in one on left side…but that thing is wayyy pricey at almost $9K’ish.  TIA!

[LANCECASPER]

6 hours ago, HH60HLDG said:

MFNG wannabe In search of a 2000 or newer FIKI Bravo, or older Acclaim. came across the ‘07 Acclaim in Gulfport, has both fiki & ac…must be very heavy!  Could there be a double win in removing the horribly misplaced b/u gauges and also clawing back a few pounds?  Perhaps replace what seems to be a tertiary b/u set with something like a Dynon D3 if they are not required equipment? &, yes, saw post discussing the human factors fail, along with the pic of the bird with the m/c Sam all in one on left side…but that thing is wayyy pricey at almost $9K’ish.  TIA!

First of all they are required. Like anything else the G1000 can go black and fail. No way the G1000 would have been approved without certified backup instruments.

But even if it was failsafe what would you gain? The Mid-Continent Electric Attitude Indicator weighs 3.7 pounds, the altimeter weighs 1.1 pounds and the airspeed indicator weighs .9 pounds. So total 5.7 pounds savings. (I took out the Strobe power supplies last week on an Whelen LED upgrade and gained 4 pounds of useful load. I'd rather save the weight that way than remove the backup instruments.) 

Could they have been in a better location? Yes. When I used to look at pictures of the G1000 Mooney panel I used to think that the backups being so far on the right side was ridiculous. Owning a G1000 though, the Mooney panel is much smaller than it looks in the picture. You can fly it with the backups. However I'll admit if I was flying alone and had a G1000 failure I'd probably move to the right seat.

The picture of the G1000 Mooney with the SAM fitted on the left belongs to a pilot in Canada who had a complete G1000 failure and made it down with the backups on the right. He also put in another com radio in case of another G1000 failure. The SAM in the Ultra Mooneys placed in the middle is a good solution and a new panel could be cut and a SAM could be put in the legacy G1000 panel. The 401.37 software update allows it to interface to the G1000 as well for Baro changes. Another possibility would be re-arrange the bottom of the panel (move switches) and put in 2" back up instruments. I keep a Garmin GDL-52 on the glare shield for a redundant GPS/AHRS source to feed the iPad and Garmin Aera 760 on my yoke. I also keep a portable com radio in my flight bag just in case. If need be I believe I could get down safely with those items. 

[LANCECASPER]

21 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Unfortunately I can’t speak to the OP’s question at all, but, Lance, I would not trust the Aera’s AHRS.  I have one paired with an iPad mini running GP and a GDL-50, too, and have probably flown 100 hours with the Aera primarily in 3D synthetic vision mode, or whatever it is that they call it.  It has rolled over or behaved erratically probably 8 or 10 times during that time.  So much so that I bought a D3 and no longer even bother with the AHRS feature of the Aera, which I absolutely love otherwise. The D3’s AHRS, on the other hand, has been 100% rock solid.    

Thanks for that. I've thought about the D3 and have a spot where I could put one.

[HH60HLDG]

Thanks for the discussion Gents!  All posters bring enormous insight to those new to Mooney's! BZ!!

[Guest]

On 7/11/2022 at 7:37 AM, LANCECASPER said:

First of all they are required. Like anything else the G1000 can go black and fail. No way the G1000 would have been approved without certified backup instruments.

But even if it was failsafe what would you gain? The Mid-Continent Electric Attitude Indicator weighs 3.7 pounds, the altimeter weighs 1.1 pounds and the airspeed indicator weighs .9 pounds. So total 5.7 pounds savings. (I took out the Strobe power supplies last week on an Whelen LED upgrade and gained 4 pounds of useful load. I'd rather save the weight that way than remove the backup instruments.) 

Could they have been in a better location? Yes. When I used to look at pictures of the G1000 Mooney panel I used to think that the backups being so far on the right side was ridiculous. Owning a G1000 though, the Mooney panel is much smaller than it looks in the picture. You can fly it with the backups. However I'll admit if I was flying alone and had a G1000 failure I'd probably move to the right seat.

The picture of the G1000 Mooney with the SAM fitted on the left belongs to a pilot in Canada who had a complete G1000 failure and made it down with the backups on the right. He also put in another com radio in case of another G1000 failure. The SAM in the Ultra Mooneys placed in the middle is a good solution and a new panel could be cut and a SAM could be put in the legacy G1000 panel. The 401.37 software update allows it to interface to the G1000 as well for Baro changes. Another possibility would be re-arrange the bottom of the panel (move switches) and put in 2" back up instruments. I keep a Garmin GDL-52 on the glare shield for a redundant GPS/AHRS source to feed the iPad and Garmin Aera 760 on my yoke. I also keep a portable com radio in my flight bag just in case. If need be I believe I could get down safely with those items. 

Hey, I know that Acclaim!  It has a SAM on the left, an independent #3 Comm and a #2 transponder, as well as an Insight G3 on the right panel.

Clarence

[LANCECASPER]

3 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Hey, I know that Acclaim!  It has a SAM on the left, an independent #3 Comm and a #2 transponder, as well as an Insight G3 on the right panel.

Clarence

Wow I didn't realize it had a 2nd transponder and another engine monitor also. Sounds like good redundancy.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Wow I didn't realize it had a 2nd transponder and another engine monitor also. Sounds like good redundancy.

The engine monitor went in the right side where the AI used to reside, and was done before the software release that allowed engine data capture in the G1000.

Clarence

[LANCECASPER]

3 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

The engine monitor went in the right side where the AI used to reside, and was done before the software release that allowed engine data capture in the G1000.

Clarence

If you happen to have a picture of that panel I would like to see it.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

If you happen to have a picture of that panel I would like to see it.

I don’t at the moment, but I’ll get one to you.

Clarence

[LANCECASPER]

12 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I don’t at the moment, but I’ll get one to you.

Clarence

I found one that has it (N192AG). It's an Ovation, but similar idea with the SAM:

 

[LANCECASPER]

18 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I don’t at the moment, but I’ll get one to you.

Clarence

@Ptstickscommented on it back in 2016. His registration is C-GTAJ. I think that's the one.