Guest Posted May 9, 2022 Report Posted May 9, 2022 Started the annual on an Ovation today. The first day isn’t great. New autopilot was install recently, it looks like they forgot to rivet the belly back together after removing the old autopilot, and forgot to connect the down spring which was found laying in the tailcone. Clarence Quote
DCarlton Posted May 9, 2022 Report Posted May 9, 2022 Yikes. Curious what portion of the installation requires removing rivets? Quote
Guest Posted May 9, 2022 Report Posted May 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, DCarlton said: Yikes. Curious what portion of the installation requires removing rivets? Removing the previous autopilot, requires drilling out rivets to remove the old brackets I’m guessing. I have to acquire drawing from Garmin to confirm that the rest of the system is installed right. Clarence Quote
A64Pilot Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 I would assume the owner will contact Transport Canada about this? Quote
Guest Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 35 minutes ago, A64Pilot said: I would assume the owner will contact Transport Canada about this? Not likely. It’s a US based MSC and a US based plane. Clarence Quote
carusoam Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 Yikes! Check your work prior to completion… before the customer flys it… Finish the check list… There must be a giant lesson about distraction for mechanics buried in this tale… How is the new Autopilot working, or is it in the same condition as the sheet metal…? Thanks for sharing the details, Doc! Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
PT20J Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 Interesting about the spring. That model has a bobweight so perhaps the spring has less effect on stability than the models with the variable centering springs (a.k.a. trim assist bungees), but the spring tension is connected to the trim system and I believe augments the stabilizer trim. You might ask the owner if he/she noticed any difference in handling or trim. I'd be curious to know. At least we now have one data point that it will fly with a broken or disconnected spring! Skip Quote
Guest Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 From the IPC, the original down spring configuration. And where I believe the spring is meant to connect with the Garmin autopilot. Clarence Quote
Guest Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, carusoam said: Yikes! Check your work prior to completion… before the customer flys it… Finish the check list… There must be a giant lesson about distraction for mechanics buried in this tale… How is the new Autopilot working, or is it in the same condition as the sheet metal…? Thanks for sharing the details, Doc! Best regards, -a- Even worse is the plane was test flown before the owner picked it up. It will be an interesting phone call tomorrow. Clarence Quote
StevenL757 Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 This whole scenario is absolutely disgusting. Even worse is that an MSC did the work? I thought this was a bad joke at first, but the more I read… Unbelievable. I sincerely hope the owner reports the shop that was responsible for this. Quote
201Steve Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 The title couldn’t be better. The art of who can be trusted is a tricky game too, as I’ve discovered. Quote
EricJ Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 Wow, that's a pretty significant oversight. I suspect the shop that did that might be interested in the feedback. Quote
Rmag Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 We’ve done several autopilots in various Mooney’s. I don’t recall ever drilling out a belly skin to do this. Quote
hais Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 4 hours ago, M20Doc said: Is it sensitive to name the shop? Quote
RLCarter Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 My guess is they got pulled off the job for something else and forgot where they were or someone else finished it up…. What ever happened ain’t good…..Years ago a friend was doing the 1st annual on a brand new C-182 and found a bucking bar in the wing……Crap Occurs 1 Quote
Guest Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 7 hours ago, hais said: Is it sensitive to name the shop? I’d rather not state who it is publicly. If the owner of the plane logs on and wishes to, that would be his choice. Sadly it’s an MSC. Clarence Quote
Guest Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 6 hours ago, RLCarter said: My guess is they got pulled off the job for something else and forgot where they were or someone else finished it up…. What ever happened ain’t good…..Years ago a friend was doing the 1st annual on a brand new C-182 and found a bucking bar in the wing……Crap Occurs I’m not sure that I can buy that as a reason, forgetting or missing one small thing, maybe. This one has a number of issues with workmanship and I’ve still got to review the logs and paperwork for other portions of the job that were done at the same time. Clarence Quote
A64Pilot Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 10 hours ago, M20Doc said: Not likely. It’s a US based MSC and a US based plane. Clarence Well, the FAA then Quote
A64Pilot Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, PT20J said: Interesting about the spring. That model has a bobweight so perhaps the spring has less effect on stability than the models with the variable centering springs (a.k.a. trim assist bungees), but the spring tension is connected to the trim system and I believe augments the stabilizer trim. You might ask the owner if he/she noticed any difference in handling or trim. I'd be curious to know. At least we now have one data point that it will fly with a broken or disconnected spring! Skip Usually a spring is used to make positive control force in a max aft CG. Thrush uses one, most Ag pilots either remove it or stretch it out so it no longer functions, they do this to get lighter elevator stick forces. The purpose of the spring most often is to expand the CG range, an aircraft that has no handling issues, aft CG point is determined when the push back if you will gets to min limits, continue to load aft and you reach the stick force neutral point, which is where zero pressure is required to move the elevator either up or down, further aft and of course it reverses out, meaning if you let go the elevator will suddenly go full travel. So if you load heavy to go to Sun - n- Fun or whatever and you notice the elevator forces are lighter than normal, you may be at or past aft CG, so be careful. Some aircraft like a Bonanza for instance the CG moves aft as fuel is burned off, which will take a marginal CG condition and make it unsafe after flying for awhile, with CG way aft get into turbulence especially if IMC and it’s not hard at all to get pitch oscillations that can over stress the aircraft, and I think aft CG issues may have something to do with Bo’s breaking up, but that’s just one of my theories. Thankfully our CG seems to move very little with fuel burn, almost no shift. So we don’t have to worry about that. Edited May 10, 2022 by A64Pilot Quote
KB4 Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 Owner is in capable hands now. Sucks to pay for rework, but can rest assured, Clarence will sort everything out correctly the first time. An MSC is only as good as their worst mechanic, and he missed the rivets staring him down. Inexcusable. Quote
StevenL757 Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 On 5/9/2022 at 10:23 PM, Rmag said: We’ve done several autopilots in various Mooney’s. I don’t recall ever drilling out a belly skin to do this. Exactly. Nor should you or your staff have to de-rivet at that level. The furthest you'd have to go on an Ovation is to drill out the Avex non-structural rivets on one large inspection panel out in the Rt wing to access the roll servo (assuming you're replacing servos in a KFC- or KAP-150 AP. I certainly hope the owner will bring this shop to light here, or at least hold them accountable. It's stuff like this that give GA a black eye. And we have enough black eyes already. Quote
A64Pilot Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 49 minutes ago, StevenL757 said: I certainly hopes the owner will bring this shop to light here, or at least hold them accountable. It's stuff like this that give GA a black eye. And we have enough black eyes already. Really should in my opinion document things and call the FSDO. This kind of work isn’t just a window scratch, this kind of thing could lead to structural failure, and of course loss of life. its to a large extent what the FSDO is for, They will listen to an Owner especially with documentation, and I would do nothing to fix it until I called the FSDO either Leaving a row of rivets out of an airframe is criminally negligent (in my opinion) Edited May 10, 2022 by A64Pilot 1 Quote
rbridges Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 just wow. I understand missing a screw here or there, but a whole friggin panel of rivets is crazy. 1 Quote
Browncbr1 Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 Probably one person removed old system and different person installed new AP. Quote
flyboy0681 Posted May 10, 2022 Report Posted May 10, 2022 I can understand your reluctance to name the shop, but I agree with others that the FSDO should be informed. Quote
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