New panel, some questions.

[Joris]

Hi,

I'm looking to renew my panel. Currently I have all the classic stuff with some new things added over the past years. In short, the main stuff is a KAP150 autopilot, old King radio and ADF, GNS530W, GMA345 and a JPI930.

I was quoted roughly 50K euro for a complete new, laser engraved, panel with a re-wiring of all the existing electric stuff and removal of the vacuum system. The 50K includes all the work plus this hardware: G500Txi (with ahars and GAD43e), GNC355A, G5 backup and a GSB15.

Surely that all looks nice but I still have these questions:

• Do I need the GAD43e? Isn't a simple GAD43 enough to remove the vacuum and provide an attitude source for the KAP150? I will lose some features, sure, but those come at a 2500 euro price.
• Is there an advantage to use a GI275 as a standby (quote now includes a G5)
• And why not a G3X touch? Will that drive my KAP150 and provide an attitude source so I can remove the vacuum?
• As most approaches in Europe are now RNP, I think a GNC355A is enough (I keep the GNS530W for the occasional ILS). Would you nonetheless install a GTN650xi?

Thanks for your thoughts

[carusoam]

Great questions Joris…

There are plenty of answers for each one around here…

Especially when it comes to the interface boxes…

and why the G5 and G3X go together…

and the G500txi and GI275 get paired together…

 

See if you can find the writings of Skip… he has detailed many of the things he has put in his plane recently…. 
 

That may be helpful…. You will also see the knowledgable discussions with other people involved…

Good luck with your next steps…

Best regards,

-a-

[FlyingDude]

Please post before/during/after pictures

[Utah20Gflyer]

I don't know enough to give you a definite answer but I know one of the big advantages of the GI 275 is it's ability to interface with older equipment including autopilots.  I'm not sure about your application but may want to check and see if the GI 275 can drive your autopilot without the GAD43.  I think it does with a 500 dollar add on.   

I have a 355 and like it quite a bit.  If you are keeping the 530 I don't think there is any reason to upgrade to a 650.   Although since you already have a wass GPS you don't really need another one anyway.  You could just do a 225 to get another com or a 255 if you wanted another nav/com.  That would save you some money.   

[Marc Taylor]

When a friend upgraded his panel, the shop I work with said the G3X is very Garmin specific, meaning it does not play well with other brands.  I was advised if I have a G500txi, the extra features of the G5 vs. the GI275 would not be worth the investment.  However, if you are keeping the KAP150 autopilot, then the question becomes what is needed to drive it?  My 252 is some distance away getting an annual, so I do not have access to my log books.  I previously had a G500 and the logs would show which adapters were used for the 150 (I updated to the GFC500 autopilot-the G5 drives it).

The best advice I can offer is, if possible, work with a shop that has experience with your airplane and the avionics you want to install.  I have had 3 significant updates done on my 252-one took 3 times the estimated time (his first install in a Mooney).  The last two have been on time and at the estimate or less.  The installer that has done the last two updates have techs that have brand experience (the guy that works on mine was a Mooney mechanic for 15 years previous to becoming an avionics tech).

[PT20J]

The G3X, G5, and GFC 500 were designed by Garmin TeamX originally for the experimental market. They use the CAN bus to tie all the components together. The design uses distributed hardware and software unlike more traditional designs where each box implements a complete function. For instance the G3X does not have an ADAHRS -- it uses a GSU 25D. But, if the GSU fails, the G3X can use the ADAHRS built in to the G5 instead and still operate normally. The GFC 500 autopilot has flight director software in the G3X and G5. The autopilot software lives in the servos. The controller -- which is the brains of autopilots such as the KFC 150 -- is just a control panel with some monitoring capability. So, if the G3X fails, the autopilot can use the G5. The distributed nature of the design allows these three units to work well together and to provide a lot of redundancy and backup capability. But it is also the reason that they don't always work so well with legacy equipment. So, if you need or want to keep a legacy autopilot, there are better Garmin options than the G3X. Also, if you are planning an incremental upgrade rather than a complete rip and replace, you should define the ultimate goal and figure out the steps to get there so you don't paint yourself into a corner by installing something that turns out to be incompatible with a future addition. Garmin does not make this easy because it doesn't provide a lot of detail about how to assemble their various products into systems to get the most out of the equipment.

Skip

[Joris]

Thanks all for the insights.

15 hours ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

If you are keeping the 530 I don't think there is any reason to upgrade to a 650.   Although since you already have a wass GPS you don't really need another one anyway.  You could just do a 225 to get another com or a 255 if you wanted another nav/com.

I would like to have a backup GPS if my GNS530W dies. In the GNC355, can I load an ILS procedure just for situational awareness?

As for the G5 of GI275 and autopilot interfacing, my shop told me that is is not legal for a backup device to drive the autopilot. Although I found no reference for that statement.

My budget does not allow to replace the autopilot. So I'm keeping the KAP150 (and ADF and GNS530) for now. I thus understand that a G500Txi is the better option.

/J