1970 M20C

[NateZ]

Would like to get a couple opinions about what this aircraft is worth real market value. I have a number in mind, and I have also looked at the book numbers and would like to compare. 

 

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20C-RANGER/1970-MOONEY-M20C-RANGER/1194063.htm?

 

Thanks, 

Nate

[Z W]

It's overpriced.  That's a $35-40k airplane.  I've been watching the market for C models very closely for several months trying to sell ours.  It needs an IFR GPS to get anywhere near that asking price.

[gregwatts]

Quote: NateZ

Would like to get a couple opinions about what this aircraft is worth real market value. I have a number in mind, and I have also looked at the book numbers and would like to compare.

 

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20C-RANGER/1970-MOONEY-M20C-RANGER/1194063.htm?

 

Thanks,

Nate

[carusoam]

Nate,

The 70C is in NJ at an MSC where I have had my annual done.  Like anything else, the asking price is a starting point for a great conversation.

Are you on the east coast?

 

Zane,

Negative campaining lacks character.  Advertising your plane while cutting the price for someone else's doesn't build the confidence required to sell machinery at a premium price.

Best regards,

-a-

 

[NateZ]

Yes Carysoam I'm on the east coast. Its a very nice plane, but im in agreement with whats been said, my offer would be less than 50K, and that conversation may be a very short one. I may give the broker a call to see whats up. 

 

Nate

[jetdriven]

60k can come real close to getting an early 201.  With it, the longer fuselage, improved instrument panel, and fuel injection (LOP!) .

[Z W]

Fair enough - just thought I'd throw it in for discussion.  Edited it out.

To be clear, I don't think there's anything wrong with the plane inquired about, other than the asking price.  Not sure that's "negative campaigning."  There are plenty of nicer equipped planes out there with a lower asking price, IMHO, not just mine.  Happy shopping.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: NateZ

Would like to get a couple opinions about what this aircraft is worth real market value. I have a number in mind, and I have also looked at the book numbers and would like to compare. 

 

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20C-RANGER/1970-MOONEY-M20C-RANGER/1194063.htm?

 

Thanks, 

Nate

[NateZ]

Is that article online?

 

[John Pleisse]

Quote: NateZ

Is that article online?

 

[jwilkins]

I have no opinion or expertise to make a market valuation; that is for the industry experts to predict. However, I'd like to ramble on about total cost vs purchase price.

Market value is a soft metric until the plane is sold; then you know what the value was to the person who bought it. My first Mooney, a '62 'C' was a really good purchase price, but I spent almost as much in discretionary upgrades as I did to buy the plane. The avioics guys tried to talk me out of putting a G430 in; they said the cost to total value did not support it. I put in a G430 and an S-Tec 30. The return on investment was really low, but I never regretted the expense. I went from white knuckle, sweating IFR approaches to only slightly anxious.

If I had a clear requirement for what I needed instead of bargian price hunting, I could have bought  a  newer plane with the equipment already installed for less than my total investment.

History says a 'C' engine has  a better chance of making TBO than the 'F' or 'J' FI engine,  but that supposes the pilot manages the engine properly. Not everyone needs an approach certified GPS. Some buyers want a really nice looking plane that has a fairly good probability of NOT having a lot of non-forecast maintenance for a couple years. This plane has a lot of really good features, including the Wilmar tank sealing and MSC annuals. 

I recently traded my beautiful pristine fast cruising '67 F for an M20K that can climb up higher & faster than the F. The cosmetics are not as good, and the radios are maybe a little bit of a step down, but it climbs. That's what I needed. Without knowing what the real mission is for any potential buyer it is very difficult to establish a real market value for any particulr plane. There just aren't enough out there to be able to shop like you can for a used car.

I've mentioned this before, but my approach to buying the 'K' and the 'F' was to call Jimmy Garrison and talk to him about what I wanted and what I thought my budget could stand. Both times he worked with me to find a plane that fit what I wanted.

Yes, the market is soft, but the real key is that the needs of a buyer come together with an available plane that fits. I would think the real key is not to focus on price, but to figure out as clearly as you can what your real priorities are and focus on finding a plane that fits your needs. 

When I bought the 'F' I told Jimmy that I wanted to find a plane that the previous owner had already done the avionics upgrades, had very good cosmetics, and had a fairly good probability of not requiring any major repairs in a couple years. 477T was exactly what I wanted, although at the top end of my budget, it was what I wanted.

After moving West I told Jimmy I wanted to trade in 477T on a K and keep the incremental cost as low as possible, have a low time engine, decent maintenance, and good avionics. It took a few months but we found, again, what I wanted.

I think the requirements should come first, then an honest calm discussion with an industry expert whose opinion you can trust about whether your requirements and budget are realsitic in todays market. If they requirements and budget are realisitic, then it is a matter of hunting. Remember that your perfect next plane may not even be on the market today. IMHO the purchase price is one one factor; the condition (think required maintenance expense), cosmetic standards you can live with (P & I are expensive),  plus minimum equipment you want (already installed is much less expensive) make up the total cost of any particular purchase.

Jim

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KSMooniac]

Very well written approach, Jim.  I concur 100%, especially with the idea to stretch your budget if needed to get a premium plane that meets your needs instead of trying to get a bargain and modify it, within reason of course.

Personally I think the plane is priced too strong in this market with that panel.  If it had a 430W in there, then perhaps they're in the right ballpark.  Vinyl interior is also a nit to pick, but at least most of the seating surface is fabric and thus won't get sticky/clammy.  Never hurts to call and get a conversation going, though.  All of those mods are certainly nice, but they just don't add value to the airframe dollar-for-dollar.

[kris_adams]

It sure is a nice looking bird though.

[Tom M]

Hi. In 2021 what is the average 1970 Mooney M20c worth? No real enhancements have been made other then a newer GPS unit.

Regards,

Tom

[Tom M]

Hi Nate,

If possible if like to know the worth and your opinion of what good purchase price to offer.

Sorry I wrote down the incorrect year. I'm looking at a 1977 Mooney M20C Ranger with 460 SMOH and Airframe total time of 2900 hrs.

This would be my first aircraft purchase.

Regards,

Tom

[Skates97]

Without knowing equipment/avionics, interior/exterior condition, etc... that is tough to put a price on. Even "newer GPS" doesn't provide much information as that could mean a lot of different things. There is a good valuation form on The Mooney Flyer website which provides a starting point.

https://themooneyflyer.com/valuation/M20CValuation.html

[Ragsf15e]

Somewhere between $35k and $65k.  As skates said, need lots more information on equipment and condition to make a guess.  Even with all that it’s a guess and these days it’s a sellers market, so you’ll have to make a reasonable offer and be quick.

[gsxrpilot]

M20C's are all nearly 50 years old and many are older than that. That means M20C's on the marked are all very different and worth wildly differing values. So many things go into the valuation of a vintage Mooney. One of the most important things in the valuation will be if it's currently airworthy, flying, and flying regularly. 

Make yourself a spreadsheet something like this and fill it in with every single M20C for sale in the country, over the next few weeks. It's not hard, there aren't that many. It will give you a pretty good idea of the market.

[Skates97]

43 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

M20C's are all nearly 50 years old and many are older than that. That means M20C's on the marked are all very different and worth wildly differing values. So many things go into the valuation of a vintage Mooney. One of the most important things in the valuation will be if it's currently airworthy, flying, and flying regularly. 

Make yourself a spreadsheet something like this and fill it in with every single M20C for sale in the country, over the next few weeks. It's not hard, there aren't that many. It will give you a pretty good idea of the market.

 

I did the same thing, I listed every C/D/E/F in my price range over a period of about 6 months.  I also listed the avionics, links to the ads, etc... I just looked, there were 40 planes on my spreadsheet by the time I bought mine and I felt I had a good handle on the market.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Tom...

I love threads from 2011...  

They bring back memories...

Prices have probably shifted significantly since this thread was started... but, the logic still applies...

Best regards,

-a-