!! Help, buying decision!!

[Mooneyys Flo]

Hi guys, 

I'm a little ansure if I should make a call on a offer or not. 

Is the following Mooney worth 135.000 Euros incl. VAT? 

 

M20K 252

Year: 1987

Engine: TSIO-360 MB1

Total frame hours: 985h

Engine OH 50h and a year ago

Just got a new 100h ispection

Avionik: almost everything original and old from 1987 (same as paint and interior) 

 

I like the idea of having a low hour frame and a new engine. Old avionik is a trade off but it is then up to my future preferences. 

What do you think about it? 

Or should I wait of better offers? 

Sincerely 

Mooneyys Flo

Edited February 24, 2021 by Mooneyys Flo

[Yetti]

The expensive part of owning a plane is the maintenance.

[Mcstealth]

37 minutes ago, Mooneyys Flo said:

Hi guys, 

I'm a little ansure if I should make a call on a offer or not. 

Is the following Mooney worth 135.000 Euros incl. VAT? 

Year: 1987

Total frame hours: 985h

Engine OH 50h and a year ago

Just got a new 100h ispection

Avionik: almost everything original and old from 1987 (same as paint and interior) 

 

I like the idea of having a low hour frame and a new engine. Old avionik is a trade off but it is then up to my future preferences. 

What do you think about it? 

Sincerely 

Mooneyys Flo

What model? How many hours? Which exact engine? What extras like bladders, FIKI, Speed Brakes, Long range tanks?

[Mooneyys Flo]

5 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

What model? How many hours? Which exact engine? What extras like bladders, FIKI, Speed Brakes, Long range tanks?

M20K 252

Speedbrakes are included, hot prop, oxygen. 

Pretty much all the standards of a 252 TSE with the engine TSIO-360 MB1

Edited February 24, 2021 by Mooneyys Flo

[Mcstealth]

54 minutes ago, Mooneyys Flo said:

Hi guys, 

I'm a little ansure if I should make a call on a offer or not. 

Is the following Mooney worth 135.000 Euros incl. VAT? 

Year: 1987

Total frame hours: 985h

Engine OH 50h and a year ago

Just got a new 100h ispection

Avionik: almost everything original and old from 1987 (same as paint and interior) 

 

I like the idea of having a low hour frame and a new engine. Old avionik is a trade off but it is then up to my future preferences. 

What do you think about it? 

Sincerely 

Mooneyys Flo

What model? How many hours? Which exact engine? What extras like bladders, FIKI, Speed Brakes, Long range tanks?

[Mcstealth]

15 minutes ago, Mooneyys Flo said:

M20K 252

Speedbrakes are included, hot prop, oxygen. 

Pretty much all the standards of a 252 TSE with the engine TSIO-360 MB1

Which AP?

[Mooneyys Flo]

2 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

Which AP?

The standard KFC 150

[Mcstealth]

Okay. "Is it worth it" is always a very subjective question. The bird is "worth" what you are willing to pay for it.

Those Euros is about $165,000 American dollars. 

If the engine has had a FULL overhaul, and there is no corrosion on the wing spar, no leaks in the tanks, no damage history, that above dollar amount would still be at the high range in my opinion. Especially since you are looking at what? $50,000 American to upgrade the panel? Add a few thousand for landing gear donuts because I am sure they have never been changed. You will be over $200,000 American before you know it. Your first Annual will be over $10,000 I am willing to bet. 

Not saying don't buy it, just saying it will take some money to get the bird to where you want it. 

Find out if she is "Encore" upgradable.  That is a good thing IF you really want to sink the money into it. 

Others will be here soon to shoot holes in my opinion.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Mcstealth

[Mooneyys Flo]

1 minute ago, Mcstealth said:

Okay. "Is it worth it" is always a very subjective question. The bird is "worth" what you are willing to pay for it.

Those Euros is about $165,000 American dollars. 

If the engine has had a FULL overhaul, and there is no corrosion on the wing spar, no leaks in the tanks, no damage history, that above dollar amount would still be at the high range in my opinion. Especially since you are looking at what? $50,000 American to upgrade the panel? Add a few thousand for landing gear donuts because I am sure they have never been changed. You will be over $200,000 American before you know it. Your first Annual will be over $10,000 I am willing to bet. 

Not saying don't buy it, just saying it will take some money to get the bird to where you want it. 

Find out if she is "Encore" upgradable.  That is a good thing IF you really want to sink the money into it. 

Others will be here soon to shoot holes in my opinion soon.

Thank you for your opinion.

Yes the dounts need to be changed. No corrosion and no damage history. 

I know it is a very subjective question but any opinion is giving me another view point and some help. 

 

I like the low hour in combination with the full OH and the mid-sized budy. 

[Hank]

Last I checked (mine were replaced in 2012 or 13), donuts were $105 each. You need eleven (11). Plus labor. And I had to rent special tools and pay shipping to me and back.

[gsxrpilot]

2 hours ago, Mooneyys Flo said:

Is the following Mooney worth 135.000 Euros incl. VAT? 

Here in the US market, that is a very fair price for a 252. I don't know about Europe.

252's are not that common and a good one will command that price easily.

[Oldguy]

3 hours ago, Mooneyys Flo said:

Hi guys, 

I'm a little ansure if I should make a call on a offer or not. 

Is the following Mooney worth 135.000 Euros incl. VAT? 

 

M20K 252

Year: 1987

Engine: TSIO-360 MB1

Total frame hours: 985h

Engine OH 50h and a year ago

Just got a new 100h ispection

Avionik: almost everything original and old from 1987 (same as paint and interior) 

 

I like the idea of having a low hour frame and a new engine. Old avionik is a trade off but it is then up to my future preferences. 

What do you think about it? 

Or should I wait of better offers? 

Sincerely 

Mooneyys Flo

Your question can be answered - and it sounds as if the price may be good - but the real estimation of the actual value will come from a pre-purchase inspection from someone knowledgeable about Mooneys, especially the 252 model. There is a section specifically for European Mooney Pilots a bit down the page. You may have some good responses from someone in that section.

Best of luck!

[geoffb]

He doesn’t live in a dollars world, he lives in a euros world and the price is net of VAT which I’ll bet isn’t trivial.  Could maybe buy one in the states cheaper, but the logistics will make the price delta seem like nothing.  Can’t be too many 252s in Europe. If it’s solid, respectable overhaul, everything works and it’s already in your home or a neighboring country, convenience would be worth a slight premium to me.

[carusoam]

How many other 252s are available in Europe?

How many in the world?

There are two models for pricing used around here...

The MooneyFlyer is one resource...

The other is GMax...

https://www.gmaxamericanaircraft.com
 

Hit the inventory button scroll down to the 252 for sale... compare to the one you have...

Best regards,

-a-

[Mcstealth]

I do not mean to sound sceptical but I consider myself a realist.

What we have here is a machine that has flown on average less than 30 hours per year for 34 years. Unless the last 200 hours flown have been within the last year, everyone knows that all the steam gauges will malfunction 1 by 1 quickly enough. The elevator trim will start sticking because the jack screw has probably never been serviced properly. The tanks will develop leaks (not cheap). The sending units will be inaccurate. And the list goes on and on. 

If this is a forever plane, and money is no object, rock on. Please resurect that Mooney. Everyone here will cheer you on and support you. The fact you are even considering it is a positive in my book. 

I will be quiet now.

 

[gsxrpilot]

38 minutes ago, Mcstealth said:

I do not mean to sound sceptical but I consider myself a realist.

What we have here is a machine that has flown on average less than 30 hours per year for 34 years. Unless the last 200 hours flown have been within the last year, everyone knows that all the steam gauges will malfunction 1 by 1 quickly enough. The elevator trim will start sticking because the jack screw has probably never been serviced properly. The tanks will develop leaks (not cheap). The sending units will be inaccurate. And the list goes on and on. 

If this is a forever plane, and money is no object, rock on. Please resurect that Mooney. Everyone here will cheer you on and support you. The fact you are even considering it is a positive in my book. 

I will be quiet now.

 

100% Agree... but only to add that 252's are increasing in value and decreasing in number to the extent that they are worth bringing back from a purely financial stand point. 201's are in the same situation. 

[Aerodon]

Seems to me some of the posts are a bit negative.  My biased view, from personal experience:

1) 252's are one of the best planes for two people to travel around in to visit lots of exciting places.  

2) From 86 on, Mooney did a better job of corrosion proofing the structure

3) The engine change is with $50-70k (ask both GSX and I, we've done that).  The recency of the engine change is also valuable.  50 hours on a 10 year engine overhaul is an issue.

4) As far as I know alll 252's are "encore upgradeable'

5) All 252's came with speedbrakes and decent avionics

6) Standard range is good, Monroy tanks are excellent (like fly the Atlantic without ferry tanks).

7) You will never struggle to sell a good airplane.  Something with 1500 hours on an 1800 engine is going to be difficult.

8) I would say the asking price of $165k is very fair, and I think the comments made already about things to look for apply to any plane.  You need to be able to accommodate $5-15k annuals, but I think you have taken a lot of risk out by having a low time engine.  (who did it?)

9) Fly this 75 - 100 hours a years and in 5-10 years it is still a very saleable airplane.

10) the avionics may be dated, but the are capable and can be maintained as is.

If I was in Europe and didn't have more planes than fingers I would go look.  I keep trying to trade up, but I have problems with the divesting part.

Aerodon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mooneyys Flo]

On 2/25/2021 at 7:16 PM, Aerodon said:

Seems to me some of the posts are a bit negative.  My biased view, from personal experience:

1) 252's are one of the best planes for two people to travel around in to visit lots of exciting places.  

2) From 86 on, Mooney did a better job of corrosion proofing the structure

3) The engine change is with $50-70k (ask both GSX and I, we've done that).  The recency of the engine change is also valuable.  50 hours on a 10 year engine overhaul is an issue.

4) As far as I know alll 252's are "encore upgradeable'

5) All 252's came with speedbrakes and decent avionics

6) Standard range is good, Monroy tanks are excellent (like fly the Atlantic without ferry tanks).

7) You will never struggle to sell a good airplane.  Something with 1500 hours on an 1800 engine is going to be difficult.

8) I would say the asking price of $165k is very fair, and I think the comments made already about things to look for apply to any plane.  You need to be able to accommodate $5-15k annuals, but I think you have taken a lot of risk out by having a low time engine.  (who did it?)

9) Fly this 75 - 100 hours a years and in 5-10 years it is still a very saleable airplane.

10) the avionics may be dated, but the are capable and can be maintained as is.

If I was in Europe and didn't have more planes than fingers I would go look.  I keep trying to trade up, but I have problems with the divesting part.

Aerodon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 2/25/2021 at 7:16 PM, Aerodon said:

Seems to me some of the posts are a bit negative.  My biased view, from personal experience:

1) 252's are one of the best planes for two people to travel around in to visit lots of exciting places.  

2) From 86 on, Mooney did a better job of corrosion proofing the structure

3) The engine change is with $50-70k (ask both GSX and I, we've done that).  The recency of the engine change is also valuable.  50 hours on a 10 year engine overhaul is an issue.

4) As far as I know alll 252's are "encore upgradeable'

5) All 252's came with speedbrakes and decent avionics

6) Standard range is good, Monroy tanks are excellent (like fly the Atlantic without ferry tanks).

7) You will never struggle to sell a good airplane.  Something with 1500 hours on an 1800 engine is going to be difficult.

8) I would say the asking price of $165k is very fair, and I think the comments made already about things to look for apply to any plane.  You need to be able to accommodate $5-15k annuals, but I think you have taken a lot of risk out by having a low time engine.  (who did it?)

9) Fly this 75 - 100 hours a years and in 5-10 years it is still a very saleable airplane.

10) the avionics may be dated, but the are capable and can be maintained as is.

If I was in Europe and didn't have more planes than fingers I would go look.  I keep trying to trade up, but I have problems with the divesting part.

Aerodon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks a lot for your point of view. It definitely helps and supports my original thoughts.

 

I was actually stepping away from this plane but now Im back on it. 

I will let you guys know how it ended up and post pics when I can call it mine.  

A very thorough pre buy would be planed anyways to lower the risk as much as I can.