Landing Height System for Mooney

[Steve0715]

7 hours ago, carusoam said:

Steve’s Arion Lightning….  http://www.flylightning.net

2 Seats, Jabiru powered, fixed gear…?

Looks interesting.

Best regards,

-a-

@carusoamfar cry from my first post here where my desire was an Ovation….

But I’m looking at reality.  I’m going to have the FAA required stress test in a couple of weeks.  We aren’t going to do the official 3rd class medical until those results are in.  My cardiologist isn’t optimistic but not negative either.

when I made my first post I wasn’t aware of the sports license world.  I started looking at the LSA aircraft.  I really wanted one of these…https://www.jmbaircraft.com/aircraft.  European build beauty.  $250k price tag wasn’t a barrier but when I tried to communicate with the USA distributor…nothing.  Zero response.  Then I found the Arion Lightning.  USA design and built.  They communicate well.  Roughly 1/2 the price.  I’ve talked to a couple of owners and they like the arion people and the aircraft.  One strong recommended I talk to these people..https://geronimoeabc.co.  I’ll go out for 3 weeks to help finish the plane. Fly it home.  
 

IF I try the 3rd class medical, get denied and I’m grounded.  Period.  If I get approved it will be with special issuance.  Good for 1 year then repeat the next year and perhaps every year.  PITA.

Flying an LSA, I need nothing other than transition training.  That’s it.  I’ll get more, a lot more including some instrument work.  I’m getting a full Dynon IFR panel just to be as safe as possible.
 

I’ll hang around here too.  Definitely learn a lot from MS! 

[kortopates]

[mention=7104]carusoam[/mention]
IF I try the 3rd class medical, get denied and I’m grounded.  Period.  If I get approved it will be with special issuance.  Good for 1 year then repeat the next year and perhaps every year.  PITA.

Not exactly. Once you get approved with a special issuance your good to get a basic med. You don’t have to stay with the special issuance. A few limitations with Basic Med but you won’t be limited to LSA nor have the expensive SI medical renewals cost.


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[Steve0715]

I see that now.  I was pm’d the relevant FAA publication, along with an AOPA publication that gives the information.  I will have to say, it brightened my day.  I also happen to know where a “forever” 201 will be coming up for sale in the near future.  I’ll pretty much know the medical part of the equation in about 3 weeks.  Thanks for the reply..feeling good!

[carusoam]

+1 for SI followed up with Basic Med…

Using the SI continuously…leaves a lot of down time for paperwork approval in OKC…. (Months)

… and the costs of annual required expensive tests…. And time…

 

Rocking the Bruce Stress test makes you feel good!  

 

Use extra caution…  know the answers before taking any test…. Accidentally losing your classIII status can be bad….

Let’s invite @Deb (heart and classIII discussion)… they may have some insight on this topic…

 

Best regards,

-a-

[hammdo]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

Not exactly. Once you get approved with a special issuance your good to get a basic med. You don’t have to stay with the special issuance. A few limitations with Basic Med but you won’t be limited to LSA nor have the expensive SI medical renewals cost.


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I've gone through this exact process. Did SI 2 years in a row, then did Basic. I'm glad I switched. Bruce protocol was enough fun for 2 years...

-Don

[Steve0715]

16 minutes ago, carusoam said:

+1 for SI followed up with Basic Med…

Using the SI continuously…leaves a lot of down time for paperwork approval in OKC…. (Months)

… and the costs of annual required expensive tests…. And time…

 

Rocking the Bruce Stress test makes you feel good!  

 

Use extra caution…  know the answers before taking any test…. Accidentally losing your classIII status can be bad….

Let’s invite @Deb (heart and classIII discussion)… they may have some insight on this topic…

 

Best regards,

-a-

@carusoamyep..I’ve been swapping pm with David.  He put me straight on the SI to basic med. Test’s done in a couple of weeks will give me answers.

 

[Hank]

32 minutes ago, Steve0715 said:

@carusoamyep..I’ve been swapping pm with David.  He put me straight on the SI to basic med. Test’s done in a couple of weeks will give me answers.

 

Basic Med is great! I had mine done at the local urgent care, time to redo it this fall (it's been 4 years already). The limits don't bother me at all--no more than 6 seats and 18,000 msl. My C is only 4 place, but is capable of 180 if light (I've climbed to 15,000 msl with a CFI and O2 bottle; wrote down conditions, did the math later, DA was 18,800).

I have no need to go that high, just wanted to see what it was like right before flying to Yellowstone a few years back. Controls were mushy . . .

[Danb]

1 hour ago, Steve0715 said:

@carusoamyep..I’ve been swapping pm with David.  He put me straight on the SI to basic med. Test’s done in a couple of weeks will give me answers.

 

Steve I checked out the turbo JBM earlier this week at Oshkosh spoke with the distributor from Charlotte, fell in love with the demo there, since I’m not getting any younger the plane will fit my mission in a year or so, I’ll seriously consider selling my Bravo and putting in an order. They told me six months to a year. 170 knots on 8 gph order the avionics and schemes for the interior and exterior. Looks great for smaller people the stall speed is around 40 or so has a chute. The cost of the retractable with the larger engine is between 300-350k they quoted us.

[Steve0715]

1 hour ago, Danb said:

Steve I checked out the turbo JBM earlier this week at Oshkosh spoke with the distributor from Charlotte, fell in love with the demo there, since I’m not getting any younger the plane will fit my mission in a year or so, I’ll seriously consider selling my Bravo and putting in an order. They told me six months to a year. 170 knots on 8 gph order the avionics and schemes for the interior and exterior. Looks great for smaller people the stall speed is around 40 or so has a chute. The cost of the retractable with the larger engine is between 300-350k they quoted us.

I agree, assume you have watched some of the videos.  My problem was I couldn’t get the distributor to answer my emails.  Phone numbers weren’t good numbers.  And..since I couldn’t fly the retract/915 model, the lightning fit in pretty well for me.  But, goodness that vl3 is slick.

[Pinecone]

It is not either or 3rd Class and Basic med.

You can renew your 3rd class, and while waiting, fly under Basic med.

The only problem is if you get denied 3rd at some point, you can no longer do Basic med.

I am flying with Basic med.  Having just purchased a 252, I would like to go into the flight levels.  I will schedule a CONSULT with my AME to make sure there is no reason he can see for a problem with a 3rd or 2nd class.  If there are any issues, I will stay with Basic med.

My primary care doc does my Basic med.

[bmcconnaha]

Triple digits into my J model panel… and the LHS was installed sort of as an afterthought.  I had everything else purchased, and then thought, what the heck.  We’re there anyways, and I have to say…. It’s probably my favorite piece of gear.  200 foot check landing gear call for one final check of the gear is awesome.  Great aid for nighttime landings also.  All in all, a great system.  

[Microkit]

I have some exciting news.   We have been working to get two new upgraded models certified, and we just got the approval certificate.   We probably still need at least 40 days before we have reasonable quantities of units in hand.  This is the first time we publicly mention it.

Both upgraded models are the exact same case and use the same laser element as the 100-B model (200 ft).    

We are planning a low-cost upgrade path for all customers wanting to upgrade their unit to one of the new models.   It just needs to come back to us for a quick turn around (once we have the new boards available). More information on the upgrade path will be available shortly.  

New Model #1 (LHS-200-B) (Adds GPS Feed)

This unit uses the same 4-Pin Quick-Disconnect wiring.  This model adds RS232 GPS Input.  We will use the existing 4th wire (Green) that is not being used and can be routed differently as almost all installations uses it as a ground reference for audio; this wire on the new model connects to an available GPS RS232 output from a GPS receiver, and we will be able to pick up two important information; Speed & GPS reported Altitude.  

We have a road map (with a later firmware only update) to use the GPS Reported Altitude to offer options for 3000 ft, 2000 ft, 1000 ft and 500 ft announcements.  

200 ft and below are still actual laser based reporting, higher are coming from the GPS feed if activated.

As we can also pick up speed data from the feed; pilot who fly IMC a lot can set up a speed value (Approach speed + 20 kt for example) in the LHS unit using Wi-Fi, and the unit will mute any ice crystals hits or such if the reported speed is above the setup speed.  This model is suitable for airplanes with fixed landing gear.  

New Model #2: (LHS-200-C) (Adds GPS + Gear Warning System)

This unit uses the same case and laser element as the 100-B, however it will come with a 5-pin quick disconnect.  For upgrade; the 4-pin quick disconnect already wired needs to be cut (near the LHS side) and 3-wires of that are used again (Power, Ground and Audio Hi), an extra two wires can be routed to this connector.  

One wire from the Gear Lever Switch and the other wire is for GPS, similar to above (RS232 GPS Feed).  

The 200-C model now “physically” check the status/condition of the landing gear and if the unit starts seeing the ground (200 ft and below) with the gear is still up; it won't be announcing the range but will be repeating “Check Landing Gear” every few seconds until either the Gear Switch is lowered or airplane climbed above the detection zone.  

If GPS feed is activated but no feed present; the system reverts to normal operation with no GPS data feed.  

Both features are optional and can be activated using a Wi-Fi link to the unit.    

The two new models will be released at a slightly higher pricing than the current 100-B.  But for a limited time until we disable the ordering system of 100-B; all new orders placed now are going to be marked for 200-C (GPS + Gear Warning) at the current price of the 100-B.     

Regards

Nidal

 

[hammdo]

Nice! For those of us with the 70 ft version, what will we need to do? I’m pretty sure the inspection cover cutout was different…

-Don

[Microkit]

15 minutes ago, hammdo said:

Nice! For those of us with the 70 ft version, what will we need to do? I’m pretty sure the inspection cover cutout was different…

-Don

Yes, the inspection plate is different for the 70' model.  We will have a solution.  We will be considering even a laser element update.  The cut-out can be cut to accommodate the 200 ft sensor and the extra cut out for the bigger profile of the 70' sensor would be covered by the bottom of the case or a new aluminum plate can be used.  It is a small access panel so it can be easily changed or painted to match if a new aluminum plate is used.    Upgrade to new sensor is probably better for retractable gear airplane with actual physical gear warning addition as its best to know at a higher alt compared to 70 ft or below.  

[hammdo]

I have the Johnson bar so it would probably need to tap into the indicator (red) light warning.

Super. I’ll want to upgrade for sure…

-Don

[201Mooniac]

1 hour ago, Microkit said:

The two new models will be released at a slightly higher pricing than the current 100-B.  But for a limited time until we disable the ordering system of 100-B; all new orders placed now are going to be marked for 200-C (GPS + Gear Warning) at the current price of the 100-B.    

 

This is great, I've been procrastinating on purchasing but this has me ready.  Can I order today on the website?

[Microkit]

53 minutes ago, hammdo said:

I have the Johnson bar so it would probably need to tap into the indicator (red) light warning.

Super. I’ll want to upgrade for sure…

-Don

@hammdo 200-C unit is designed to offer three choices (on the same wire);  selectable using WiFi.  

Either connect that wire to the gear Lever Up position to detect voltage present on that wire meaning gear lever is placed at the up position, or connect the wire to the gear Lever down position to detect voltage, or connect the wire to the limit switch / light for safe gear indicator to detect ground activation.   

Normally these limit switches are connected in series and if any of these switches are not triggered, the green light indicating gear down and locked won't be ON.  Once all these switches (or single limit switch in some cases) is triggered, it "grounds" the wire to complete the circuit for the Green Light to illuminate, we can detect ground activation on that wire also if selected in the WiFi.     

Knowing there are various different wiring diagrams for different Mooney airplanes, it will be helpful if someone can maybe post a wiring diagram of the different kinds of landing gear limit switches/lights, but we believe the three choices above should cover all scenarios.   When you say Red light? Do you mean the Red light is ON when the gear is not safe?  Or it is ON when the gear down and locked?   If it is the former; does this mean you don't have a green light that goes ON all the time while the gear is down and locked?

[hammdo]

Red light is gear unsafe/gear up.

Green light is gear safe/down and locked...

there is a switch above the down lock block that denotes gear position for us Johnson bar folks...

The green light is set once the 'mushroom head' on the Johnson bar is locked in place.

we also have a gear warning siren that is on the throttle but I'd prefer the light switch being used...

-Don

[Microkit]

21 minutes ago, 201Mooniac said:

This is great, I've been procrastinating on purchasing but this has me ready.  Can I order today on the website?

 

@201Mooniac Yes.  Until we have stock of the two new models, orders placed now for the 100-B are marked for the 200-C.

 

[Fly Boomer]

2 hours ago, Microkit said:

The 200-C model now “physically” check the status/condition of the landing gear and if the unit starts seeing the ground (200 ft and below) with the gear is still up; it won't be announcing the range but will be repeating “Check Landing Gear” every few seconds until either the Gear Switch is lowered or airplane climbed above the detection zone.  

And if gear is down, would I still get the height call-outs all the way down to touchdown?

[Microkit]

1 minute ago, Fly Boomer said:

And if gear is down, would I still get the height call-outs all the way down to touchdown?

Yes, of course.  The main function of the LHS is not changed.   If the gear is down, the system operates normally.  Gear is up (or not down depending on which detection method used) it won't announce the height but keeps repeating to check the landing gear.  

Now let's talk about intentional gear up landing; this is one of the scenarios we considered.  If the gear is up, it won't be announcing height, but if someone is unable to get the gear down and is now committed to a gear up landing; it's best during their off airport check and try to lower the gear to go into the unit WiFi and disable gear check option, then the unit works as now.   If someone is committed to gear up or not fully locked landing, they would have plenty of time to do this.  This is a better option than mixing both repeated Check Landing Gear callouts along with height call-out as it will be distracting and during the lengthy (about 1.4 seconds) duration of the Check Landing Gear, actual height call-outs are not heard.

 

[201Mooniac]

37 minutes ago, Microkit said:

 

@201Mooniac Yes.  Until we have stock of the two new models, orders placed now for the 100-B are marked for the 200-C.

 

Great, order just placed!

[Fly Boomer]

@Microkit the Bonanza in one of the videos on your website has a 500-foot call-out.  Is that your box or something else?

[Microkit]

17 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

@Microkit the Bonanza in one of the videos on your website has a 500-foot call-out.  Is that your box or something else?

Thats not from our box as its an old video.  I think thats from the Garmin panel.

 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Microkit said:

@hammdo Knowing there are various different wiring diagrams for different Mooney airplanes, it will be helpful if someone can maybe post a wiring diagram of the different kinds of landing gear limit switches/lights, but we believe the three choices above should cover all scenarios.   When you say Red light? Do you mean the Red light is ON when the gear is not safe?  Or it is ON when the gear down and locked?   If it is the former; does this mean you don't have a green light that goes ON all the time while the gear is down and locked?

Sorry, the hammdo link won't erase on my phone . . . .

The red Gear Unsafe light is ON whenever the Master Switch is On and the gear are up. The green Gear Safe light is ON whenever the Master Switch is On and the gear are down and locked.

Either the red or green gear light is ON all the time, with a brief delay when going from one indication to the other. At least in my C.